FC3 using DCS World v2.5+

Hi all,

I've read on here some place that during the DCS World update period (v1.5 - 2.5) that playing any FC3 Missions or Campaigns were pointless due to various bugs etc...?

If true, has v2.5 taken care of all these bugs etc and updated the module files to ensure all works as originally intended?

If not, please explain why it is ED continue to offer FC3 for sale knowing that many of the missions/campaigns are not working?

Is there a list of all fully working modules for use with DCS 2.5?

Well, if you read it somewhere on the internet it must be true. ;)

There are very few show stoppers in the current 2.5.0 stable release. I can only speak for my own work, but there are no critical issues with the Georgian War for the F-15C in the current stable release to the best of my knowledge.

Several issues with both module functionality and AI behavior have arisen in the 2.5.1 open beta release, but that's why the beta branch exists. ED are gathering feedback and reports from users and working to correct the problems before the release is moved to the stable branch.

From my perspective as an end user, the load times in 2.5.0 are significant but once it's up and running things have been very stable for me, even in a heavily scripted multiplayer mission environment.

Thank you for the update.

Does that mean i can do away with the User Mod i installed that claimed to resolve known issues within the Georgian Oil & Bear Trap Maps and just use the 'virgin' install that came with FC3?

ED have spent months preparing the old campaigns, they even have volunteers to help test from the community, even with this some issues may still be present.

 

If you have an issue that has not been reported or want checked let us know in a bug report post and we will take a look. ED are doing their best to get issues resolved as soon as possible, but understand it is a massive amount of work.

 

A broken mission does not make FC3 useless there is no need to take anything off sale.

I don't have a public list of issues, if you have something specific please use the search function here on the forum.

 

thanks

Hi BIGNEWY,

Thanks for replying.

As 'feefifofum' suggests, it appears that i have fallen victim to the WWW 'What Can't Speak Can't Lie' information highway.

I'm fairly new to the game and have spent a fair few evenings of late seeking advice/instruction from various Forums and YouTube videos to assist with training.

Needless to say, I was left with an overall impression that many of the original campaigns/missions had been left behind and therefore required significant modding if used within recently updated versions of DCS World.

Given your response, I was wrong!!

Please accept my apologies for the perceived lack of appreciation and suggestion of foul play within my original post. It wasn't my intention to undermine the hard work and dedication of all those involved with the development/running of DCS.

G

Thank you for the update.

 

Does that mean i can do away with the User Mod i installed that claimed to resolve known issues within the Georgian Oil & Bear Trap Maps and just use the 'virgin' install that came with FC3?

I am playing through the Bear Trap right now, using patch from here https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/index.php?CREATED_BY=MadDog-IC&set_filter=Y&sphrase_id=8347897 (many thanks, MadDog-IC). I skipped the earlier missions as I played them before, but the missions starting from "Defend base against Bombers" have worked perfectly well. Even the infamously difficult for the AI "Attack on Nalchik" and "Attack on Mozdok" - the SEAD flights have moved in when I called them and killed SAMs as they they were supposed to.

Bottom line: not sure how it is with the vanilla version, but the fixes above work great in 2.5.1 - in Bear Trap at very least.

I am playing through the Bear Trap right now, using patch from here https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/index.php?CREATED_BY=MadDog-IC&set_filter=Y&sphrase_id=8347897 (many thanks, MadDog-IC). I skipped the earlier missions as I played them before, but the missions starting from "Defend base against Bombers" have worked perfectly well. Even the infamously difficult for the AI "Attack on Nalchik" and "Attack on Mozdok" - the SEAD flights have moved in when I called them and killed SAMs as they they were supposed to.

 

Bottom line: not sure how it is with the vanilla version, but the fixes above work great in 2.5.1 - in Bear Trap at very least.

This is the problem i have.

Based on what you're saying, in order to play FC3's Bear Trap Campaign as intended, i first have to install a 3rd party/user mod created back in March 2017?

Why have they not taken account of the adjustments made by the Mod creator and updated 2.5 accordingly?

Or have they?? and this Mod is no longer required?

The user in question is part of the official team rebuilding the campaigns.

The user in question is part of the official team rebuilding the campaigns.

Hi again,

Noted and glad to hear it, but why do i still need this mod given that it was uploaded early 2017 for V1.5 ?

According to MadDog-IC, the file i just downloaded and installed in less than a minute makes FC3 Bear Trap playable.... if this is indeed the case, why have DCS not done the same?

At the risk of simplifying the whole process, why cant ED update all modules to work correctly ( un-modded ) in DCS 2.5 before moving on to 2.5.1 and 2.5.1 Open B??

A lot of the fixes you see in the user files has been added I believe.

 

I will point MadDog-IC this way he will know more.

Thank you.

This appears to be the most current WIP build of Bear Trap

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3431344&postcount=21

This is the problem i have.

 

Based on what you're saying, in order to play FC3's Bear Trap Campaign as intended, i first have to install a 3rd party/user mod created back in March 2017?

 

Why have they not taken account of the adjustments made by the Mod creator and updated 2.5 accordingly?

 

Or have they?? and this Mod is no longer required?

Short answer to your question is:

• A great deal of the missions I have posted on the USER download sight are exactly the same as the in game version of today.
  
• Some missions however are not the same as the ones in the game now, I have provided most, if not all of my modified missions and campaigns to ED at some time, but ultimately they decide what happens to them after that, some they used as is, some they don't and do their own updates, some they used and have now overwritten with an older buggy copy.
  
• Not to sound arrogant but I could say that my copies will out perform those of the same missions in the DCS game that haven't been updated in any form by me, ED or any other 3rd party but ALL missions will still be broken in some way with DCS 2.5 and require some form of adjustments, that is just how it is.
  

This is a complex issue, I will express my point of view as a so called developer, even though all the missions are originally EDs work, my original work was for myself and to bring the old A-10c, Ka-50, Su-25T modules up to date after oking it with ED themselves, but was later invited to help ED on some other modules (FC3 campaigns).

Eagle dynamics are ultimately responsible for their products, by nature I am a simple end user like the rest of you on these forums, I however also dislike playing DCS with missions that I have played and know to have no chance of working correctly.

The user mods I have posted have been a labor of love for the game with many 1000s of hours over a few years dedicated to the meticulous sifting through of every aspect of the missions, to ensure they fully work. This work can be undone in a heart beat, with one simple update patch, with some change in a behaviour of missiles, SAM systems, missile positions on the aircraft rails, weather conditions, time of day, broken triggers, and others to numerous to mention.

So any work I or anyone else does can only be guaranteed to work on the exact same version of DCS at the time it was developed and tested with, any thing past that is questionable.

All my work was based on DCS 1.216, once fully tested to work on that, the missions were imported to DCS 1.5 when available and once again modified and checked to work, this required fairly minor adjustments, but it is still time consuming, with the DCS 2.5 there are massive changes that will affects all aspects of all missions ever made for DCS, particulery based on the caucasus map.

With major changes such as going from DCS 1.216 to DCS 1.5 made quite a few missions problematic, but also gave us some tools to fix issues present in the previous version, and now with DCS 2.5 with new lighting systems that is affection time of day lighting and most likely lock on issues with missile seekers and TV systems and a new caucusas map, that is quite different to the original with shifted positions of whole map and greater amount of forested terrain means that every active and static ground target has to be checked and possible moved to make mission usable.

Even my previously supplied missions that they used have had other work done on them by others to include the Multi language upgrades for Russian, Chinese, Spanish, Korean, this alone has created a bad situation for me, as ED can be actively changing the same missions in parallel with me changing mine, only to have two copies of the same mission that aren't easily merged, with out a ton of more work on someones part, mine or theirs. This is a current problem with me working on mission versions supplied from ED in the latest DCS 2.5 that I had corrected previously a 6-12 months before, but obviously aren't my work, they don't have my signature tell tales and the mission have the old issues that I had already corrected.

The current state of DCS 2.5 missions means it is impossible to devote the hours required to perfect missions, but just to band aid repair issues reported, personally for every issue reported I can find an extra 5-10 other issues with most missions, these are core problems that will be in every mission regardless.

To sum up, I could write a book about the problems with missions, the mission editor and the like, but I would still like to thank all at Eagle Dynamics for making a fine product in the first place, even if it does cause me a lot of head aches. I would also like to also acknowledge the tireless work other dedicated people who are working towards the improvement of all facets of DCS.

Kind Regards All, Ian.

The user mods I have posted have been a labor of love for the game

DCS is itself "a labor of love" I feel, it is so at odds with so much that is going on with the gamedev today and over the past ten years... :v:

new caucusas map, that is quite different to the original with shifted positions of whole map and greater amount of forested terrain means that every active and static ground target has to be checked and possible moved to make mission usable.

That's a good point! Bear Trap and other fighter campaigns are certainly less affected by the new Caucasus map (F-15's Bear Trap seems to run flawless to me), groundpounders may be quite different in that regard.

EDIT: Completed the Bear Trap today -hooray me and many thanks again, MadDog-IC!

MadDog-1C - Your help (and passion) is greatly appreciated!

The working/not working of individual campaigns doesn't invalidate the entire module... That's hyperbolic, to say the least...

 

That's a good point! Bear Trap and other fighter campaigns are certainly less affected by the new Caucasus map (F-15's Bear Trap seems to run flawless to me), groundpounders may be quite different in that regard.

 

EDIT: Completed the Bear Trap today -hooray me and many thanks again, MadDog-IC!

Hi Katmandu,

Was the Bear Trap Campaign you completed the default version ie. no mods applied or do i still need MadDogs patch?

The working/not working of individual campaigns doesn't invalidate the entire module... That's hyperbolic, to say the least...

So you're saying that as a consumer, i should overlook any issues pertaining to the operational status a module and simply reflect on the hard work and dedication of all those involved with its creation??

In my opinion, it is ED/DCS that undermine and take for granted the hard work, dedication and raw talent of users such as MadDog who have over the years supplied (FOC) user mods/patches that make the game playable.

All of which are soon outdated or have their compatibility questioned due to an update of the World Platform by ED/DCS.

Hi Katmandu,

 

Was the Bear Trap Campaign you completed the default version ie. no mods applied or do i still need MadDogs patch?

I've downloaded MadDog's patch and installed it via JGSME to "SavedGames/DCS" path, but not sure if it was "seen" by the game. Some of the activated mods work fine (like aircraft label mods), but other mods are ignored by DCS (e.g. mod to change title music is ignored even though it is activated with all paths triple checked). Also I did not know about what MadDog has posted above - that many of his fixes were taken up by ED themselves.

Try running the game without his patch and, if you spot a malfunction in mission logic, you could install the mod afterwards and it should not affect your saves/progression.

So you're saying that as a consumer, i should overlook any issues pertaining to the operational status a module and simply reflect on the hard work and dedication of all those involved with its creation??

 

In my opinion, it is ED/DCS that undermine and take for granted the hard work, dedication and raw talent of users such as MadDog who have over the years supplied (FOC) user mods/patches that make the game playable.

 

All of which are soon outdated or have their compatibility questioned due to an update of the World Platform by ED/DCS.

No, what I'm saying is you can still fully utilise the module whether those campaigns work or not, and that you're being dramatic. The only way you avoid stuff getting broken periodically is if you play a game that is either old and abandoned or at least not being heavily developed. This isn't your first PC game, is it? If you encounter a problem, report it and move on.

In the few short years I've been here, the number of modules has quadrupled, the game experienced major revisions of the core engine twice, and has had revisions made to the editor and GUI several times. It breaks stuff each time and it takes time to fix it. That's life, especially in this environment.

As Kat suggests instead of fretting about a potentially nonexistent problem, start the game and go play. Report any issues you find. Otherwise go play something else and check back when they've had more time to make repairs. You've spent three days with this thread instead of just playing the game lol

I've downloaded MadDog's patch and installed it via JGSME to "SavedGames/DCS" path, but not sure if it was "seen" by the game. Some of the activated mods work fine (like aircraft label mods), but other mods are ignored by DCS (e.g. mod to change title music is ignored even though it is activated with all paths triple checked). Also I did not know about what MadDog has posted above - that many of his fixes were taken up by ED themselves.

 

Try running the game without his patch and, if you spot a malfunction in mission logic, you could install the mod afterwards and it should not affect your saves/progression.

Evening Kat,

Thanks for replying.

Problem is that i have no clue as to what works and what doesn't. I just play the mission as instructed and blame myself for its failure over and over again.

Naturally, after many failed attempts, i reach out to various forums for guidance, only to find other users claiming that the campaign and/or various missions are broken bla bla bla.. or not.. hence the thread/Q..

I'm going to try again tonight with fresh install and no mods... will let you know!

Either way, I still enjoy the game and should maybe start looking at creating my own missions in stead of dwelling on the past.

No, what I'm saying is you can still fully utilise the module whether those campaigns work or not, and that you're being dramatic. The only way you avoid stuff getting broken periodically is if you play a game that is either old and abandoned or at least not being heavily developed. This isn't your first PC game, is it? If you encounter a problem, report it and move on.

 

In the few short years I've been here, the number of modules has quadrupled, the game experienced major revisions of the core engine twice, and has had revisions made to the editor and GUI several times. It breaks stuff each time and it takes time to fix it. That's life, especially in this environment.

 

As Kat suggests instead of fretting about a potentially nonexistent problem, start the game and go play. Report any issues you find. Otherwise go play something else and check back when they've had more time to make repairs. You've spent three days with this thread instead of just playing the game lol

Evening Zhukov,

I hear what your saying and understand the whole software development vs 3rd party Mod issue.

I appreciate that games (over time) may develop faults and therefore require multiple updates to maintain compatibility etc. I'm also aware that each 'Module' provides the user with more than just the pre loaded missions/campaigns such as user missions/multiplayer maps etc.. should they choose to use them... That said, please note that I purchased the FC3 game on a 'Plug n Play' basis intent on using only the pre-loaded/default single player environments.

However,(from an OTT/Consumer point of view) the module in question 'FC3' is still on sale and therefore not obsolete. As such, i, the consumer, would expect all aspects of the module (i have purchased) to work with all/any versions of the DCS World platform provided by ED (without the need for user mods) until such time as it is shelved. Although, as you correctly pointed out, it may be that in this case V2.5 does work correctly and there's nothing to complain about..... hence my original post which simply asked if V2.5 had taken care of the various faults identified/raised by users within FC3 and/or had elements of MadDogs V1.5 patch been incorporated within the latest world update, rendering his mod obsolete?

To which the answer is still not 100% clear.

With regards to simply playing it and reporting back, I spent 5/6 weeks using both V1.5 & V2.5 trying to complete mission 3/4 of FC3 Bear Trap, only to find that it was broken on account of some AI actions. Hence I created this thread, given that MD's User Mod Patch required V1.5 and unsure if it worked in V2.5?

As you may of already guessed, i have virtually no knowledge of computers, their file structure or the programmes they run. I also have zero understanding of avionics, cockpit layouts, military procedures and/or mission programming etc... this makes it fairly impossible for me to identify any issues, other than that of major system crashes etc. Needles to say, i rely heavily on the significantly more experienced/knowledgable players (such as yourself) within these forums for instruction/assistance.

All i wanted from this post was to obtain clarification as to whether or not it was my poor piloting or known software bugs responsible for the embarrassingly high level of mission failures?

I appreciate your feedback and respect your point of view. Don't want to fall out or create an argument. Also wasn't my intention to appear over dramatic or unappreciative, if i did?

On a lighter note, i received my Track IR earlier today so will no doubt need some assistance with that too.

R's

Gavin

I understand, and apologise if I sounded harsh. As with any forum, it's hard to tell where somebody is coming from, and I tend to be blunt, at least.

Anyway, yeah, this sort of thibg is fairly common with PC games, though. They're not as nicely wrapped and reliable as consoles usually. I make my own missions, rather than play campaigns, as result I frequently have to recompile them after major patches because stuff behaves strangely.

From ED's perspective, keeping all the missions running 100% is nearly impossible, there's always going to be an overlooked error or script invalidity. Pro-consumer mentality is all well and good, but it runs into the harsh wall of reality sometimes. There's literally always going to be something somewhere not working. If it wasn't an FC3 campaign it would be one of the others. You'll have to delve into light modding/user missions and/or occasionally tweaking stuff yourself, that or accept the limitations of the system and bypass stuff when you run into a wall.

TrackIR is awesome, complete game changer. I actually didn't like it when first got it and stopped using it for ages, then came back to it. Once you get used to it and get the settings dialed in, you won't be able to live without it it feels so natural. I often find myself turning my head without it by habit :p

Anyway, I'll assist any way I can, though others here know a lot more than I do about specialty topics. I can't fly for a few more months, but there are a lot of good clans, and online training videos, like Redkite and others.

i, the consumer, would expect all aspects of the module (i have purchased) to work with all/any versions of the DCS World

I understand you completely and you made really good points in this thread as I felt exactly the same at first when I bought F-15C and struggled with the campaign half year ago. It's a pity but this is how games are made this days. Bugs everywhere. But this is not just some AAA title to deal with new cards and driver issues. It is a whole platform constantly improving, evolving and growing. I play campaign missions almost exlusively and it really is a lot of struggle if you keep updating DCS.

I could have whine at the ED business or ditch it altogether but I just kept asking for help with specific problems in missions and, man, I got help, I got answers and resolved the issues. I hereby thank all the guys I got help from. It allowed me to enjoy and finish the Bear Trap in DCS 1.5 and enjoy it again in DCS 2.5. I may be more hesitant to update my DCS again though and not willing to beta test for a while :)

To which the answer is still not 100% clear.

All i wanted from this post was to obtain clarification as to whether or not it was my poor piloting or known software bugs responsible for the embarrassingly high level of mission failures?

If you did all as intended and landed in base without mission complete message you may suspect something is wrong with the mission itself.

Also wasn't my intention to appear over dramatic or unappreciative, if i did?

All the struggles aside I cannot find words how much I enjoyed the module and flying the missions. Tens of hours of it. Yes, it's frustrating to reapeat the same mission especially when it's not your fault but it's so rewarding to fly and complete the tasks perfectly when all is working fine.

Now I want you to focus and go flying. Good luck, soldier.