[RESOLVED] F-14 flap and wing damage model.

Players are using flaps during BFM with little to no penalty.

Given flaps have a 2g 225 kts limitation (trusted seccond hand information from Victory) the wing should be damaged when limits are exceeded. I.e. frozen flaps, wings unable to sweep, asometric and / or un commanded roll, etc

I may be late to the party as some are saying this is already in place with the recent update.

Confirm?

new patch just hit, one of the patch notes was excessive G's make the plane disintegrate. Now it just rips the wings off and jester ejects immediately and I sit there going, seriously and then eject.

The amplitude and diration are important. It shouldn't be catastrophic unless you were instantaneously 9 Gs.(something like that) Flaps would be lower obviously.

2Gs is relitively low and easy to exceed. For context, a 60deg AOB turn requires 2Gs just to remain lvl. Let alone, BFM.

A question for clarity: are they dropping fully deployed landing flaps, or partial deployment in their maneuvering mode?

there's a damage model for flap overspeed, and we've gotten a bunch of bug reports from people with stuck f laps already :megalol:

Some squads allowed using flaps during bfm, some didn't iirc.

.... full flaps.

Description and schedule attached. It can be managed using the DLC thumbwheel when within the operating range, or permitted to run its automatic scheduling.

It activates using the same fore-aft switches that is used for DLC during approach. The switch you use to reduce decent rate with DLC extends combat flap, opposite retracts them. Default binding is fore-aft on CMS on Warthog.

.... full flaps.

Maneuver are normal flaps/slats without the auxiliary flaps (i.e. the inner ones), limited to 10°/7° deflection. Far away from full flaps and therefore higher max speed.

.... full flaps.

the dlc thumbwheel forward or aft controls the maneuvering flaps. I didn't know about this until I did the takeoff training mission where it mentions to use this instead of full flaps for runway takeoff.

... made the edit prior to realizing there was a response in context. Didn't think it relivent nor intresting to players given "maneuvering " flaps was not the concern. Apologies.

Concerning maneuvering flap mode "magic ". According to the screen shot provided (i will assume its validity), its use is a function of the CaDC and does not require additional input from the pilot. So "maneuvering " flaps integrity retention (concerns of over speed / G) would not be a concern making thir operation transparent to the pilot.

The concern is the flaps that require additional attention from the pilot and intended for a separate phase of flying.

Full flaps were used (unauthorized, you didn't do it with the Skipper in the flight, unless it was my last CO, then he had his down too!) in flat scissors, but within the placard limits. Flat scissors got down to around a 100 knots in full blower IIRC.

That said, full flaps resulting in severe wing rock at high alpha, and a flat scissors is generally a bad place to be...

It's OK to cheat, Lex.

Im sure there use in 1 circle. If used and flown incorrectly, would think there needs to be appropriate consequences is all.

Whats more,

If the CADC is allowing the implementation of the maneuvering flaps (as indicated by a slats baberpole when the flaps handel is up) and the pilot extends flaps when the maneuvering flaps are in use, the last "CAUTION " on that page states it can damage the flaps system ...

In short, it looks like manually lowering the flaps while dynamically maneuvering (say during BFM) can be filled with increased probability of pilot induced flap damage.

NATOPS, always filled with hidden treasures (scarcsum)

 

It's OK to cheat, Lex.

:)

Whats more,

 

If the CADC is allowing the implementation of the maneuvering flaps (as indicated by a slats baberpole when the flaps handel is up) and the pilot extends flaps when the maneuvering flaps are in use, the last "CAUTION " on that page states it can damage the flaps system ...

 

In short, it looks like manually lowering the flaps while dynamically maneuvering (say during BFM) can be filled with increased probability of pilot induced flap damage.

 

NATOPS, always filled with hidden treasures (scarcsum)

Extension of MAIN flaps when maneuvering flaps are extended will cause the latter to retract before MAIN flaps extend. It's described in my nifty paper in the sticky section and is modeled in the sim. So is partial flap extension using the flap handle.

I went through Topgun with inoperative maneuving flaps (they broke on the first 1v1). Now I am not saying that this is something that was actually done, but let's look at it from a theoretical viewpoint in the interest of systems knowledge.

A crew could pull the AUX flap CB, which would allow an enterprising pilot to use the flap handle to proportionally extend the MAIN flaps and slats when maneuving at moderate speeds while respecting the wing interlock speeds (which were still in effect). This is exactly how pilots used the flaps in the A4 during ACM. It shows that the MAIN flaps can be extended proportionately, but the AUX flaps are all or nothing, based on a flap handle position of 5 degrees as the trigger.

Extension of MAIN flaps when maneuvering flaps are extended will cause the latter to retract before MAIN flaps extend. It's described in my nifty paper in the sticky section and is modeled in the sim. So is partial flap extension using the flap handle.

 

I went through Topgun with inoperative maneuving flaps (they broke on the first 1v1). Now I am not saying that this is something that was actually done, but let's look at it from a theoretical viewpoint in the interest of systems knowledge.

 

A crew could pull the AUX flap CB, which would allow an enterprising pilot to use the flap handle to proportionally extend the MAIN flaps and slats when maneuving at moderate speeds while respecting the wing interlock speeds (which were still in effect). This is exactly how pilots used the flaps in the A4 during ACM. It shows that the MAIN flaps can be extended proportionately, but the AUX flaps are all or nothing, based on a flap handle position of 5 degrees as the trigger.

I hear ya. I was just putting 2 and 2 together from that painfully tiny snippet of the

NATOPS. Things were different back then. There are mentions of "you shal not pull circuit breakers other than called for by NATOPS procedures " all over NATOPS these days. We get yelled ya for everything now.

End of the day, this is a game, do anything you can get away with. Would still be cool if the flaps could damage if over Ged/speed.

You can damage the flaps/slats in the sim. I haven't explored that much though. Will have a closer look later. I may try reversing them, to see if anything shears. That's one of the ways to break a torque tube.

The kids are going to push the envelope in the sim. Some of the carrier landings are hilarious and would be technique wave offs at the 90. I'd like to see the DCS ship model shear the CDP and let jets dribble off into the water due to high landing speeds.

Hook skip boaters should be more prevalent with a full fast AOA indication too. I've seen a few landings at 160 KIAS!

DCS really needs a mean, nasty LSO manning the platform to wave these maniacs off...

DCS really needs a mean, nasty LSO manning the platform to wave these maniacs off...

Fortunately the modding community has you covered :thumbup:

doesn't work for the tomcat yet though...

I've experienced stuck slats when flying at high speed with them down, I believe flap/slat damage is modeled already

A lot of pilots used flaps during low velocity turn fights in real life (even if most squads didn't allow it), and the way it's modeled currently there's a fairly high risk of damaging them if you do it at too high speed tbh.