Best SAM avoidance configuration?

What's the best configuration for avoiding SAMs with the AJS37?

i.e.:

Minimum Altitude?

RADAR off? or on?

Jammer off/ silent/ on?

Speed? (as fast as possible?)

I've heard a few folks talking about how "easy" SAM avoidance is in the Viggen.. I find myself being a bit of a SAM magnet though. I must be doing something wrong.

Any help would be appreciated.

Low.

Fast.

Very much depends on the SAM type too, but as low and fast as possible, and as much terrain masking as possible. Some sites like SA-3, SA-6, SA-11, SA-10, they arent much of a treat once you are in close and low. Then you can circle them all day, no worries. But the OSA SA-8 and Tor SA-15, especially the Tor, they are beasts in close. They can track and hit you on the deck inside a very small radius. Avoid :)

That is my experience.

Low.

 

 

Fast.

This!

chaff/flares also help, as well as a jammer, althoug it can only jam radars in front of you and if they are not too close.

From my (limited) experience with the jammer, it seems to cause SAMs to miss every once in a while (perhaps one in 5-10) that would otherwise have tracked well. This is not good enough to depend on and therefore you have to go evasive anyway, which will put the SAM outside the coverage of the jammer. Therefore it doesn't make much sense to carry the pod in the first place. If jammers (and chaff) in DCS could actually break established radar locks, they would be a lot more useful.

One important attribute of SAMs is their reaction time, which is the time they need from target detection to missile launch. Older systems generally need longer, which can be exploited. SA-6 takes about 35 second, followed by SA-8 with 30 seconds. This is long enough to approach covered by terrain/clutter and to perform a successful pop-up attack within the engagement envelope of the threat. Newer generation systems such as SA-10, SA-11 and SA-15 have reaction times of just a couple seconds which generally put them above things the Viggen can handle. The SA-3 is a bit of an outsider. Its old age suggests it would be slow to react, but in DCS it will actually shoot within 10 seconds.

I really like to pair SA-6 and SA-8 with the Viggen as they are from the same era. The SAMs are deadly if you approach them carelessly, but they can be avoided by applying appropriate tactics. This is great for gameplay and historically authentic. The double-digit SAMs generally are no-fly zones on the other hand.

From my tests with the jammer, it decreases the range SAMs can shoot at you.

For reference, real life AJ(S) 37 tactics revolved around flying in groups (4 aircraft) very low and very fast. Peace time restrictions were 20 m over land and 10 m over sea. Speed would be ~Mach 1. Countermeasure pods would be carried based on the protection needs of the whole group, not individual aircraft.

It's likely that AA sites covering the target area would be hit first by a couple of groups flying ahead of the main strike package.

Countermeasure pods would be carried based on the protection needs of the whole group, not individual aircraft.

Unfortunately that does not work in DCS. Jamming in DCS works only from unit to unit, so jamming a SAM by one aircraft does not jam the SAM for other aircraft :(

Low.

 

 

Fast.

This

Thanks for the feedback all.

I think I'll ditch trying to employ the Jammer, as it seems to not do much WRT SAMs, based on the feedback here.

I partially disagree about ditching countermeasures. Now, your best bet against SAMs is going to be staying low and going fast. However, if you're only doing one pass with 2 Rb75's, then you should have the two inner wing pods open. I usually carry them anyways, for at least pinpointing other SAM sites on the way in (in record mode), and gives me a bit of piece of mind for the run from the IP to the target. Even if the jammer only gives you an extra 10-20% of safety, that's still 10-20% you can use.

I partially disagree about ditching countermeasures. Now, your best bet against SAMs is going to be staying low and going fast. However, if you're only doing one pass with 2 Rb75's, then you should have the two inner wing pods open. I usually carry them anyways, for at least pinpointing other SAM sites on the way in (in record mode), and gives me a bit of piece of mind for the run from the IP to the target. Even if the jammer only gives you an extra 10-20% of safety, that's still 10-20% you can use.

Indeed, but this only applies to weapons where you can stay on the edge of the enemy engagement range, like the RB-75 or RB-04E. There the jammer can make the difference of staying outside of the SAM envelope or getting inside. With pretty much all other weapons you have to get pretty much on top of the target, so a jammer doesn't help much there.

What's the best configuration for avoiding SAMs with the AJS37?

 

 

i.e.:

Minimum Altitude?

RADAR off? or on?

Jammer off/ silent/ on?

Speed? (as fast as possible?)

 

 

I've heard a few folks talking about how "easy" SAM avoidance is in the Viggen.. I find myself being a bit of a SAM magnet though. I must be doing something wrong.

 

 

Any help would be appreciated.

Avoiding SAM hits is like air-to-air combat in WVR.

Only thing is that you need to think in 2D, instead 3D.

You can't go lower as you hit deck. You can't gain altitude much as otherwise you are visible even more.

So, you go close as closer you are, then faster you are to them as their turning speed is limite, you maneuver and you use your slower speed to cause missiles to pull even higher G than they can. Avoid going straight and you need to spot the missile launches so you can plan correct maneuver for given missile direction and distance and time the maneuver.

Even a Mig-21 can avoid Tunguska and Strela-10 at 300-800m altitude just by pure speed with large turn radius without any flares etc required.

When the Mig-21 got released, I did what I usually do with new modules and it is that I take them out to spin to push them to their limits and find what they can do without reading anything in manual. That way I get the experience without mental limitations or "rules to follow" as it is just me and the aircraft.

And I used one of my training maps here I have in a 10x15km area positioned 8x Tunguska, 6x Strela-1 and 4x Strela 10, so WAY WAY WAY more than you will ever see in any warfare in such size, and I was just flying full throttle at 800-1000m altitude and never flying straight. Always pulling some G in a S or C turns and doing 8 maneuvers etc. Just going horizontally and I did not see a single missile ever launched at me. For about 10 minutes I did it and then I thought that I was safe as no one had hitted me and I maybe did fly straight for a 15 seconds and I was in pieces.

It was not until I went to replay to see how it did and dozens of missiles were just flying past me, never near hits until I was going straight. And this was so that if I remember correctly, I never went below Mach 0.8. And the rolling capability in Mig was critical as it allowed quickly to do the S turns.

So try to do same, make a very challenging mission area and fly there trying different tactics and maneuvers.

In DCS we have unrealistic soviet SAM systems as almost all of them are capable to target and launch without any warning to you, even the SARH missiles. They are guided in via optical targeting and radio command and only in last seconds the target radar locks on you to give missile final guidance. And when it is a IR missiles, you would never see them coming as launchers keeps their ranging radars turned Off and just tracking you optically and waiting that they get lock on you and then they just estimate your possible flight heading that is there a reason to shoot, or that some other radar site somewhere else is giving you the authorization to launch.

I wonder if the jammer is any good against air threats? I’ve been using it against SAMs lately and It worked quite good.

I wonder if the jammer is any good against air threats? I’ve been using it against SAMs lately and It worked quite good.

Good question. I haven't tested it against air targets.

Low.

 

 

Fast.

And when you think you're good, get lower and faster... ;)

What has been said regarding low and fast.

When you think you’ve nailed it then go lower and faster.

Now that 2.5 is out I observed that trees block the line of sight of the SAMs and make approaching in the viggen way way easier than before. Of course now you can crash on trees also so care is needed.

Planning is crucial. Use the terrain to your advantage to mask your approach and escape.

If you can use countermeasures. You usually do one run so use them all during the run, no point flying them back.

TORs are beasts, if you can make them expend all their ammo before the attack is better.