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Essay, PART 1: Why taildraggers are tricky and how to overcome it!


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Folks - just a quick update on my own progress.

I've now further adjusted sensitivities of elevator, rudder, throttle, brakes. These were all giving issues.

Assistance now reduced to 30, & I expect to reduce this gradually (hopefully to zero).

 

Something that is bothering me tho' is the very significant tendency to blackout.... - even the slightest beyond a gentle turn seems to cause (or 'threaten') a blackout if I don't react quickly enough to the signs (clearly this is not happening to the the FW pilots that I'm chasing in the dogfight). Is this normal? Is it realistic?


Edited by Bill1949
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109 has a lockable tailwheel, that makes a huge difference.

Also what was mentioned in the original post, you learn to anticipate. That is basically true for each and every module to a degree.

At the moment it is much "easier" for me as well, to take off in the 109 as I am used to its quirks and movements...

 

After the Spitfire has enough training I guess it won't be much of a difference.

 

As the instructor said, it is to be expected, that this plane is a handful to handle. ;)

 

 

I don't recall having problems due to the lockable tail wheel, because you can with brakes use the prop wash to "center" it and trying with external camera to confirm its properly centered.

 

I feel the wings dip down so easily with small turns, while the K4 is much more gentle in that regard. It's not a matter of over-braking or giving too much throttle, i taxi almost on idle and try to give gentle brake (analog) inputs.

 

I still don't manage to takeoff using the provided checklist. What has helped me is releasing brakes after i am at around 2500rpm and then dancing a bit, correcting just a moment because the plane will try to drop a wing and soon enough it's on the air.

 

I can't predict when to give the rudder inputs to have a gentle and smooth takeoff as I have seen on some videos. I guess it needs more dancing on the pedals, but since I have tried the K4 that had some fame of being a pain to takeoff I was able to do it just following the general consensus while on the Spitfire i can't nail down a procedure that will work 100% of the times. And when it works, it's not pretty.

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@Legman, I too Have those problems, some times I can get airborne some times not.

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@Legman, I too Have those problems, some times I can get airborne some times not.

 

I've found that reducing the 'Axis Fine Tune' slope for Rudder & Pitch, from the default 45° to more like 30°, has allowed me to take off far more easily. Landing is still a bit of a problem (as always), but only after I touch the tarmac - left wing dips to ground...... I'm giving right aileron & right rudder, but that doesn't seem to cure it. Anyone advise on that?


Edited by Bill1949
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So, for anyone who might find it of interest, I've now uploaded a circuit in my Mk IX. Take-off was OK, & I survived the landing (which wasn't helped by Ivanovich still sitting on the runway as I landed.

 

In my channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWMq2jilJrsZnG0J2PftkYA

 

See 6 min vid: DCS - ED Spit LF IX circuit after adjusting control settings

 

In an attempt to highlight the more significant activities during my circuit, this is annotated (tho' the annotations apparently won't show on a phone).

 

Not perfect by any means, but a reasonable flight since adjusting my controls (before these changes, I was mostly failing to get airborne - & when I did take-off it was embarrassingly ugly).

 

In case it helps anyone, my main changes to control settings are attached. If you try these settings, let me know how you got on.

1482546551_Spitaxissettings29Dec16.thumb.jpg.c8476f999cbd1517052bbaa669e7153a.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Folks - I was hoping to provide a link to a circuit in my Spit now that I've made some control setting changes and I'm much improved in my takeoff.

I had a really nice Startup, Taxi, Takeoff, Circuit, Land, Taxi & Park - but it's a fish that got away due to the replay failing.

 

Just to show this (and not wishing to go off-topic here), I've pasted a link in https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3012573#post3012573.

 

This shows 2 different outcomes from the same replay.


Edited by Bill1949
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I've found that reducing the 'Axis Fine Tune' slope for Rudder & Pitch, from the default 45° to more like 30°, has allowed me to take off far more easily. Landing is still a bit of a problem (as always), but only after I touch the tarmac - left wing dips to ground...... I'm giving right aileron & right rudder, but that doesn't seem to cure it. Anyone advise on that?

 

on the landing roll the main reason the aircraft tips on a wing is not aerodynamic but more to do with the narrow track of the undercarriage, imagine doing a sharp right turn in a top heavy bus, the bus would tip over on it's left side, the same thing is happening effectively, the ailerons play very little part in controlling this and it's more to do with controlling the yaw or swing that develops, in your case the right rudder was probably counter productive.

in the case you are dealing with crosswind it's more often the case you will find yourself needing crossed controls i.e. opposite aileron to rudder inputs with the tendency to lean into wind with the aileron and counter with opposite rudder.

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Thanks for coming back bongo - yeah I really do need to be more aware of wind direction,eh? Have to confess that I haven't been giving enough attention to that (still learning), but I will be now.

 

Having said that, I just re-watched a successful circuit that I did about a week ago (well - there is a rather 'iffy' point during takeoff, but I was happy with the landing) and I'm not seeing a wind-sock anywhere..... is it just a case of 'feel' for it?

 

See:

 

I'm sure I must have plenty of things wrong here, but it illustrates the landing - which I find I'm in more control of now that I've reduced the slope of my Pitch, in Controls.

 

I reduced the slope because my stick is about 5 inches from the pivot to the centre of my hand, whereas in a Spit this distance must be about 3 time more I guess (for the elevator anyway), allowing greater hand movement & therefore finer adjustment of the elevator. I feel that this reduced slope compensates for the much shorter stick.

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in the real world I'm used to seeing lovely bright orange windsocks at each end of the runway and or one about half way, in their absence then it really must be a case of feeling for it and that's not a problem really.

 

the video looked pretty good to be honest. I'm a bit reluctant to mess about with curves as they are really just robbing you of the true stick to surface response and if you don't set them up right can make a total pigs ear of things, I don't struggle with the issues some have with the hardware i.e. long stick vs short stick or non force feedback, I have flown aircraft that have all the same variations, I have 600+ hours on Tiger Moths and the lack of feedback and huge amounts of backlash you get makes you think someone has built it with 50% deadzone and almost flat curves yet it is very sensitive, the point is you just adapt and learn to refine your inputs or on others push the stick to the corners. Having said all that one thiong I have repeatedly said is I really want to find a solution for the rudder hardware, personally I would wish for force feedback on my feet over the stick itself, it's where I struggle the most adapting to virtual flying from my real life flying.

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....personally I would wish for force feedback on my feet over the stick itself....

 

I absolutely agree there sir! I have very little experience of 'having control' IRL, but (from my couple of 'fun' lessons in a Cherokee, amounting to just 1.5 hrs, see link) I do remember the feel of the rudder pedals during taxiing - & it would definitely be nice to get that in sim.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIo8BsabwnI

On finals, my instructor was happy enough to not re-take control until about 20ft above the runway.


Edited by Bill1949
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  • 3 weeks later...

As far as being spot on...that is exactly the opposite of what one of our members with thousands of hours of tail wheel time says. I'll see if I can get him in here. He flies for a major airline that I won't take the liberty to mention out of respect for him.

I9 9900k @ 5ghz water cooled, 32gb ram, GTX 2080ti, 1tb M.2, 2tb hdd, 1000 watt psu TrackIR 5, TM Warthog Stick and Throttle, CH Pedals

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  • 2 months later...
  • 1 month later...

Most well written and helpful thing I've read on the topic!

 

Not only do you clearly have the expertise but you ability to articulate it in a concise and helpful manner is very impressive.

 

I really appreciate you taking the time to share you knowledge with us. This, is exactly the kind of information that fascinates me and I love learning more about it. Not to mention the fact that it just makes time spent in DCS even more rewarding.

 

Thank you so much for all 3 parts! Cheers!

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F/A-18C, F-5E, F-86F, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, Ka-50, SA342, P-51D, Spitfire Mk.IX, Bf109, Fw190, FC3, CA, Persian Gulf, NTTR, Normandy, WW2 Assets

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  • 3 months later...

I just read this, its gold. From a tail dragger pilot too.

AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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  • 2 months later...
Most well written and helpful thing I've read on the topic!

 

Not only do you clearly have the expertise but you ability to articulate it in a concise and helpful manner is very impressive.

 

I really appreciate you taking the time to share you knowledge with us. This, is exactly the kind of information that fascinates me and I love learning more about it. Not to mention the fact that it just makes time spent in DCS even more rewarding.

 

Thank you so much for all 3 parts! Cheers!

 

Exactly! This.

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  • 2 years later...

Yep, I agree with everything CFI has said, bongo and others too.

 

Years ago, when Pontius was a pilot, I was an air cadet in the school CCF. We went to RAF Newton for our AEF flying. As a Cadet Warrant officer and Flying Scholarship victim, I had my scholarship wings on. (and a PPL freshly issued) ans spent the day strapping the younger kids in. When all were done, the Station Commander came out and offered me a flight. Not only that but he jumped in the back! So, fresh from 40 hours total in the C150/152/172, there I was in an RAF Chipmonk, WG304, in the front seat for my first actual takeoff.

 

Needless to say I gound looped it spectacularly to much hilarity and laughing from the back! Once facing the right way and remembering which foot was needed, I did a reasonably straight take off, had a brillianty fun 30 minutes and also got the landing down on all three points successfully. So different in the front seat than the back!

 

Had a couple of goes in a Cub since then, but I do miss TW flying!

 

This winter, I will set up my DofReality P6 and fit the warthog with a long extension and with my Bruner pedals will finally get to enjoy the collection of TW Warbirds in DCS.

 

Can't wait!

Clevo P775TM1-G laptop with 9900K and RTX2080. Airliner pilot by day and keen simmer on days off.

 

Mark.

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