Help with proper RPM management

I'm coming up to speed on the P-51D as well. So I'm a bit confused about some of the views regarding RPM management in this thread, to be clear, in a 1v1 with co-equal advantage, is 3000 RPM and max MP not necessary? And I'm talking about the duration of the fight.

Entering the fight is super key, but seldom in the airquake does a P-51D get to jump an opponent since you usually have to start at a higher altitude thus making you easier to spot. Typically, in my 109v51 fights, a good dogfight typically devolves into a low and slow 1 circle or scissors, while I assume most P-51D pilots are then at full RPM, max MP for the entire engagement. Is that not the case? Also, if a P-51D pilot does win or survive the engagement, is safe to assume you must RTB to repair? Does repair actually work for engine stress during the fight but no damage from enemy fire?

I'd also be curious about other pilots thoughts on tactics once the fight does get low and slow in the P-51D.

-SLACK

@ harf4ng - think about it, at idle/low MAP, the engine barely produces any power to turn anything, so sure, the RPM will be at low values, as there's nothing to crank it up to higher ones. Every propeller RPM, regardless of the type, depends on both power produced by engine and load imposed by air, so, depending on either of these two factors, yes, at some situations RPM will drop below intended values.

@ karlmeyer25 - max MAP and RPM produces highest power output, but also generates biggest amount of heat - might be more than the cooling system is capable of dealing with - ESPECIALLY if during clueless turn fight the speed drops too low. When the engine in DCS Mustang overheats, it goes bang rather quickly, we talk about dozens of seconds at best. You might not hear the characteristic bass rumble noise, or You might not react fast enough to it. So You rather won't be able to RTB and check if engine repair works :D. That's why many players change the MAP in combat all the time when they don't actually need all of it, just to keep the engine cool.

Is it like that in real P51? I mean, the engine overheats fast as well in a matter of seconds?

I guess we should avoid as well rpm and map above the red line...

Why would I do something like that? It isn't within parameters or any real specific setting for a specific phase of flight so it's unrealistic that I'd ever do that. I'm not sure why you'd think someone that knew how to fly would ever use that setting.

To demonstrate that damage from improper RPM is modelled, contrary to what you stated previously.

For taxiing you don't need to keep the control stick back.

It is best practice in taildraggers to *always* have the stick in your lap unless you operate in a particularly strong tailwind.

Is it like that in real P51? I mean, the engine overheats fast as well in a matter of seconds?

I guess we should avoid as well rpm and map above the red line...

Nobody has provided historical info on how fast the overheated RR Merlin would go "tits up", and certainly nobody's going to test it on today's, rebuilt, damn expensive units. We can only learn to live with how it's modelled in DCS now - which is - You don't want to keep the temps over the redline for longer than a couple of seconds. Trust me, You'll quickly learn (the hard way) to keep an eye on temp gauge and how to handle the engine in various manoeuvres to avoid trouble :).

Nobody has provided historical info on how fast the overheated RR Merlin would go "tits up", and certainly nobody's going to test it on today's, rebuilt, damn expensive units. We can only learn to live with how it's modelled in DCS now - which is - You don't want to keep the temps over the redline for longer than a couple of seconds. Trust me, You'll quickly learn (the hard way) to keep an eye on temp gauge and how to handle the engine in various manoeuvres to avoid trouble :).

Good stuff Art-J, but if you found yourself in a fight getting low and slow, and too far for a quick return to base, how would you handle the engine?

Good stuff Art-J, but if you found yourself in a fight getting low and slow, and too far for a quick return to base, how would you handle the engine?

If you're flying against a human opponent, then he has to deal with comparable thermal limitations. If you're low on energy and your opponent isn't, you're dead either way (unless your opponent sucks, but then, how did he get you to bleed your energy...).

You mean AI is cheating and has no such limit? :)

I don't know, i said human opponent to be sure.

If you're flying against a human opponent, then he has to deal with comparable thermal limitations. If you're low on energy and your opponent isn't, you're dead either way (unless your opponent sucks, but then, how did he get you to bleed your energy...).

Ehhh...I'm not so sure. If you're flying against a solid human opponent in the 109 and you do everything correct in the P-51D, I still see a 1v1 getting low and slow as every maneuver and counter-maneuver trades energy. Typically, its harder to recover potential energy as the fight drags on even if you keep trading potential for kinetic and vice versa. As its been discussed at length before, the 109 exceeds at recovering energy much better than the P-51D, and with the MW-50 on, the high RPM's don't seem to do anywhere near the damage that they do on the P-51D.

I get it though that if you're low and engaged by a solid 109 pilot, you're as good as dead no matter what you do in the P-51D. I'm learning that the hard way.

-SLACK

It is best practice in taildraggers to *always* have the stick in your lap unless you operate in a particularly strong tailwind.

Well, in a real A/C with a mechanical control stick, there is no re-centering mechanism, so laying the stick in your lap is actually a product of not wanting, or needing, to hold it upright the entire time while on the ground.

I've seen film material of pilots doing that. They generally have it off to one side. Probably for... comfort reasons ;).

With my extended Warthog, it still stands straight by itself, and there's no reason to not let it stand if it wants to, no pun intended :D much ;)

Well, in a real A/C with a mechanical control stick, there is no re-centering mechanism

You're right, that's why in a real AC, the stick will either go to full stop forward by itself through the weight of the elevator or whatever position the slipstream of the prop pushes it to. This is *not* a convenience thing, it is done for ground handling safety reasons. We're getting off topic though.

In a real aircraft, even if there is no centering thing, there is kinda one. I mean, with the forces around the aircraft, if the weather is calm and the plane trimmed, you can release the stick and it does not move, more or less.

This is not what happens in an helicopter though, but it happens in a plane.

We can't mimic that in a flight sim, except with a force feedback stick, and there is near no more force feedback stick on the market... with current computer flight sticks, either the stick stays centered all the time (normal behaviour) or if you have a stick with no spring, it will fall on a side if you release it...

I feel like this thread should have ended after the very helpful picture of the right side of the cockpit, showing the placard that answered the OP's question :megalol:

Always good conversation with some interesting and sometimes helpful info in the off-topic parts :thumbup:

I feel like this thread should have ended after the very helpful picture of the right side of the cockpit, showing the placard that answered the OP's question :megalol:

 

Always good conversation with some interesting and sometimes helpful info in the off-topic parts :thumbup:

You would've thought...lol