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Old 03-16-2018, 11:25 PM   #21
Shadow KT
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I did go in detail in couple of posts, seems like you haven't read that thread as it did get a lot of answers.

Which makes this not a "simple" "YES", but a "YES", which mean that I don't want to write all that again .

lol the harrier, by razbam. Is it even implemented. I don't have the module, the fact that you can equip it, doesn't mean it is functional.

Try it on the A-10. And it does work on FC3 aircraft as well (vs AI SAM). Or if it doesn't, it is bugged, as it did have effect.

Are you going to make me prove my point ? I am a bit too lazy to setup mission and do screen shots and tests right now, if I have to be honest.
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Old 03-17-2018, 06:22 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by red_coreSix View Post
Nonsense for SARH, this can work with command guidance SAMs like SA-2/3 where you can guide them via TV track, but not for the SA-6.
Nonsense. SA-6 has a TV track capability. Capability to over 20km range tracking, silent shooting without radar lock (CW illumination).

[/quote]Wrong, every SARH missile has to be tuned to the FCR before launch, and usually, once they're tuned and spun up, you have to launch them pretty soon too. It's true that some SARH missiles have a datalink proiding mid-course updates when the seeker is out of range but that doesn't mean you can launch them in some TWS-type mode like you do with active missiles.[/QUOTE]

Wrong. Very many SARH got mid-course datalink capability, early ones were without. And many modern ones you can launch in TWS manner, even guide to multiple targets simultaneously, with modern radars updated from 2 to 4 or even 6 targets depending radar capabilities instead just 2-4 missiles to single target.

Many SAM systems as well allows to turn on the missile guidance illumination without launching a missile, to fool target to think missile was launched at them. As well launch the missiles without radar transmission turned on at all until final moment for illumination or even keep turned off and let the missile fly toward noise noise jammer. They are all tactics that can be used depending situation.

That is one reason why many SAM systems in DCS should be able to engage targets at max range as long we have just a noise jammers implemented, and such targets would never even know they are shot at. And one reason why we might find that jammers ain't working in DCS as it very well can be true. But DCS doesn't offer the realistic capabilities so CAS pilots and fighter pilots has easy times.
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Old 03-17-2018, 06:50 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Fri13 View Post
Nonsense. SA-6 has a TV track capability. Capability to over 20km range tracking, silent shooting without radar lock (CW illumination).
Okay, I'll bite. In your world how would that "silent shooting" work if you want to guide the missile somehow? You'd still have to send stuff through the uplink right? If it even has an uplink, I'm not sure. Maybe you can put a source that the SA-6 has a missile uplink and is not purely SARH.

Quote:
Wrong. Very many SARH got mid-course datalink capability, early ones were without. And many modern ones you can launch in TWS manner, even guide to multiple targets simultaneously, with modern radars updated from 2 to 4 or even 6 targets depending radar capabilities instead just 2-4 missiles to single target.
Yea, you can do that with ESA radars where you can have more than one target in STT, you might not even have to be in STT the whole time either but you still have to tune the missiles. But the SA-6 is not an ESA. Also most of the SAMs you're thinking off are TVM not SARH.

Quote:
Many SAM systems as well allows to turn on the missile guidance illumination without launching a missile, to fool target to think missile was launched at them. As well launch the missiles without radar transmission turned on at all until final moment for illumination or even keep turned off and let the missile fly toward noise noise jammer. They are all tactics that can be used depending situation.
Yeah, naturally but what does that have to do with anything. And no you can't launch with radar off, you can try and it won't work.

Quote:
That is one reason why many SAM systems in DCS should be able to engage targets at max range as long we have just a noise jammers implemented, and such targets would never even know they are shot at.
And how would they know that they're at max range then?
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Old 03-17-2018, 08:09 AM   #24
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As far as I understand, One Aircraft cannot do much against sams when it comes to jamming. Jamming is a very complicated operation in which various aircrafts carrying ECMs go into hostile area from various directions in order to effectively confuse the Radar. Those Aircrafts are dedicated for this operation and are specially equipped with high powered equipement.

I am not sure how effective a normal fighter can be agianst Sams. I mean many modern fighter jets have been shot down by Sams. Why dint they deloy ECMs if they were so effective?
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Old 03-19-2018, 09:34 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by red_coreSix View Post
Okay, I'll bite. In your world how would that "silent shooting" work if you want to guide the missile somehow? You'd still have to send stuff through the uplink right? If it even has an uplink, I'm not sure. Maybe you can put a source that the SA-6 has a missile uplink and is not purely SARH.
Why should I answer when you are being a jerk. You can go trolling somewhere else if you ant to "bite" and it is not "in mine world" but it is reality. It is teach in the air defense arms and older systems are well documented as they are unclassified.

You can continue to believe that you need to illuminate the target with radar from start to end and if the "lock" is lost then is missile too. or that you can't launch missiles and guide them with radar transmitter off.
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Old 03-19-2018, 01:57 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drag80 View Post
As far as I understand, One Aircraft cannot do much against sams when it comes to jamming. Jamming is a very complicated operation in which various aircrafts carrying ECMs go into hostile area from various directions in order to effectively confuse the Radar. Those Aircrafts are dedicated for this operation and are specially equipped with high powered equipement.

I am not sure how effective a normal fighter can be agianst Sams. I mean many modern fighter jets have been shot down by Sams. Why dint they deloy ECMs if they were so effective?
Take a look at the DECM 60 informational video that was posted in one of these copy cat threads. https://youtube.com/watch?t=706s&v=d5T1vPmA-l4

Yeah when there are 20 radars tracking a single aircraft, it's jamming capabilities gets lowered to a minimum. But in reality, no one flies alone. Yes there are dedicated ECM aircraft

In DCS a lot of the times your working against a single radar or maximum 2-3, not a IADS, which this was designed for, so even in a one ship you should be effective.

ECM DOES effect AI SAMs (or at least it used to)
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:29 AM   #27
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I've found it makes a noticeable difference.

Have you tried waiting to turn on your ECM until you get your first RWR contact from the SAM in question?

And you never said how you're running your tests, are you testing it the same way every time?

At what altitude, at what speed, at what angle to the SAM?

Are you flying low and slow directly over it? Are you flying high and fast with full burners?

Do you have a full loadout, including all the external hardpoints filled, or are they empty?

And against what kind of SAM? Do they have AWACS in the maps where you've tested it?

Also both of the aircraft you mention, well neither one is stealth by any means, and especially the Su-25t has an enormous radar cross section when fully loaded with missiles and rockets hanging all over its exterior. I wouldn't imagine a single jammer would have the kind of enormous effect you seem to be expecting.

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Old 06-05-2020, 09:52 PM   #28
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sorry guys, does the ecm actually work with the FA18C?!?
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