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Dynamic Campaign Engine


MBot

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Yeah you are talking about DCS campaigns, which are the set of 10 story based missions with no branching. We can both disregard that as competitive, i've never and will never buy any of them. I'm on a completely different wavelength.

 

This post is meant to offer a different view and it's entirely subjective so no one can disagree with how I percieve this fantastic peice of work. I posted similar when this was announced and we each had hoped for our view of what we thought a dynamic campaign would be. Ultimately I think some people would be confused why it's not something i'm going to enjoy and I feel the need to explain how a different aspect to DCS is more to my liking.

 

The campaigns I build and play with are based on saving the actual mission progress and then picking it up again so its like a consecutive string with real impacts, I lose immersion as soon as I exit this and realise the only thing that's tied to the next misison is the paper logistics and an ATO working its objectives. There's no capturing of ground and nothing is moving so it's a shopping list of targets for the ATO to chew through. Hence my interest in integration with DAWS and more emphasis on ground war, assignment of objectives on the ground, and capturing them, based on a combined arms approach that suits larger scale multiplayer at the squadron (4-6v4-6 or 12 person) level. Foot soldiers win the war, aircraft support them, so to speak. I want to choose my own targets so there is a feeling of confinement for me and waiting to get the task I want, but more, wanting to choose and design the task myself.

 

I'm missing out on the thing that groups love the most, the planning stage. This is an ATO engine that tells me what to do. I want to choose what I do and that's a fundamental viewpoint because groups of more than a couple of people will want to work as a team to complete objectives together, its part of the charm of complex simulation.

 

Now this is Beta, it's feature complete and up for polishing. So it's relatively moot to repeat what I said back when this was announced by Mbot. However I feel that there's been an opportunity missed and it's done and gone.

 

As a side note, if the ATO can be used to just supply an independent AI tasking system to a campaign I had designed, and leave me and ground units moving and objectives to their own devices, it would have captured much of what I really wished for. I haven't heard it will ever do this but if so, much of my percieved limitations with this engine would be removed and I would be overjoyed! In many ways, i think this implementation does too much! It's more the complete package and that has some limits on how I'd like to use it.

 

And let me close with my appreciation, because I think it will not be the lasting message people will take from this post. It's a huge peice of work and to see it in action is both ground breaking and cutting edge for DCS right now. Whilst I wish it was more the sort of thing I wanted, it's undeniably going to be appreciated by many.

 

I personally don't think 2 weeks sounds that high for a well thought out dynamic campaign. Especially when you think of the months and months that people have spent building scripted, story line campaigns that have no branching whatsoever and that you might get a couple of plays out of before you get bored of it.

___________________________________________________________________________

SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING *

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It's all in the init folder...seriously. There are comments for everything, and I even managed to made a very quick (not for release because it was seriously simple) campaign in the Caucasus. The Engine doesn't care which map you use. Again, all that's needed is time.

 

I just looked at his base mission, figured out that the LUA files have a tasking order that uses the units' names as the identifier (i.e. EWE site 101) and then lists them as a potential target. You'll need to go into the LUA file and create a target list of every unit on the map....very time consuming, but I can see why he did this. Then add every load-out type, for every mission type, for every aircraft in the Campaign. It's highly configurable.

 

Granted, I haven't tested the Tiger campaign much because I keep dying. Alot. :D How the hell do you guys fly the F-5E? Seems like suicide.

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There are a lot of entitled-sounding people in this thread. We're finally getting a taste of something that we have _NEVER_HAD_ for DCS before, and it's not EVEN RELEASED YET, and people are already complaining that it is not how they would have done it, or it's not customizable enough.

At least try to look at the INIT folder and see what is possible before complaining. /rant_mode

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LP

 

modules:

F5-E / A4-E / A-10A / AJS-37 / SA-342 / UH-1H / Ka-50 / Mi-8 / CA

 

would buy:

OH-58 /AH-64A / AH-1 / Sepecat Jaguar / F-111

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It seems I have a problem with the debrief screens at the end of the first mission : after leaving the game (hanging under my chute ;) ) a black window opens with a text like this : loading debrief please wait (many lines) then an other text appears and the window is closed quickly (can't read the ending text)

No debrief screen appears after that and when I launch an other mission my losses are not counted :(

I launch the game with admin rights and I open all files rights ...

[/url]All known Dynamic Campaign Engine Campaigns

Last DCE news : Crisis in PG - Blue version

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Maybe silly question, but is there any chance to change F-5 to something else? Mirage for example, since it also multipurpose. I am eager to fly campaign in Nevada, but don't have F5 and have no plans to buy it (just don't like F5 real plane as such).

P.S. I was flying your very first dynamic campaign on Fishbed and it was really cool!

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Maybe silly question, but is there any chance to change F-5 to something else? Mirage for example, since it also multipurpose. I am eager to fly campaign in Nevada, but don't have F5 and have no plans to buy it (just don't like F5 real plane as such).

P.S. I was flying your very first dynamic campaign on Fishbed and it was really cool!

 

Someone asked about this a few pages ago, and I think they were able to get it working with the Mirage 2000 - see chrisofsweden's posts starting here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2991650#post2991650

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It seems I have a problem with the debrief screens at the end of the first mission : after leaving the game (hanging under my chute ;) ) a black window opens with a text like this : loading debrief please wait (many lines) then an other text appears and the window is closed quickly (can't read the ending text)

No debrief screen appears after that and when I launch an other mission my losses are not counted :(

I launch the game with admin rights and I open all files rights ...

 

This sounds like the debriefing.log cannot be loaded. Do you have your DCS user files (the place where screenshots, tracks etc. are located) in some unusual folder?

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I think the phrase Dynamic Campaign Engine implied that the Engine does the work of identifying targets, but it appears you need to list the targets inside the LUA files?

 

That is correct, and I see no way without a human-made target list. The NTTR map has thousands of buildings, you wouldn't want the ATO to create missions to destroy every single building in Las Vegas. There needs to be human input to define that this house is a "Chemical weapons storage facility", that house is a "Communist Party HQ" and that the remaining 10'000 houses are therefore not targets. The same with vehicles. An ATO tasking missions against every single vehicle on the map would be awful. Human input is required to define that a group of ordinary trucks and vans is supposed to represent a high priority division HQ and therefore an eligible strike target, while some other random trucks are not.

 

Before Desert Storm, someone had to create a huge list of targets that should be destroyed. To set up a DC, the author basically has to do the same. I am pretty sure defining the targets and setting up the database for a completely new Falcon 4 campaign takes months too.

 

It seems a waste to have such effort done to have the average person unable to create their own content.

 

Perhaps I have not been clear enough in that regard, but DCE, the engine, is not supposed to be for the average user (aside from some tinkering). It is meant for those that spend months on creating static campaigns, to create dynamic campaigns instead. If just 10 skilled individuals create quality campaigns using DCE, thousands of average users will have an almost unlimited supply of missions to play.

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I neither have the F5 or Mig21, but just looking through the amount of your code(and seeing the effort there) is enough to give you multiple: :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

I hope I can sooner or later try the campaign with an A10 or Mirage.

 

Btw.

If you need for some reason export data for airport airplane slots, you can use any of my export scripts:

https://github.com/pydcs/dcs/blob/master/tools/airport_import.py

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There are a lot of entitled-sounding people in this thread. We're finally getting a taste of something that we have _NEVER_HAD_ for DCS before, and it's not EVEN RELEASED YET, and people are already complaining that it is not how they would have done it, or it's not customizable enough.

At least try to look at the INIT folder and see what is possible before complaining. /rant_mode

 

I completely agree with you. Just reading through some of the "feedback" comments gives a very negative impression about this AMAZING effort.

 

This is by far the best thing that happened to DCS since it's launch years ago. I highly advise to focus on constructive feedback to the BETA that MBot released.

 

Other suggestions/inquiries or general rant should go to a different thread.

 

Thank you MBot for all of your work, can't be appreciated enough!

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This sounds like the debriefing.log cannot be loaded. Do you have your DCS user files (the place where screenshots, tracks etc. are located) in some unusual folder?

You found the problem ! My User files are on J: and not C:

Can I simply give it the good way in J: ?

I hope so :(

[/url]All known Dynamic Campaign Engine Campaigns

Last DCE news : Crisis in PG - Blue version

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You found the problem ! My User files are on J: and not C:

Can I simply give it the good way in J: ?

I hope so :(

 

Very simple:

1. Open the file "Desert Tiger 76\Init\camp_init.lua"

2. Find the variable "log_path" and change it as appropriate.

3. Execute FirstMission.bat to generate a new fist mission.

 

Should be working now.

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But i would like to know if this saves the ground units movements. If so, i wouldnlike to. Make small campaigns attacking logistics too.

 

No, ground units movements is not supported. You can set up ground units with waypoints if you want to, but they will start at the same position and do the same movement on each mission.

 

Logistics movements is something I might look at in the future, as this is an interesting aspect of interdiction missions.

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No, ground units movements is not supported. You can set up ground units with waypoints if you want to, but they will start at the same position and do the same movement on each mission.

 

Logistics movements is something I might look at in the future, as this is an interesting aspect of interdiction missions.

 

My thougth was, may be using something like DAWs, then, to make some ground units moving with triggerzones, and finnally setting up CAS fligths tjat would attack if enemy ground units are in zone of friendlies. Automatically set an order to the CAS fligth.

 

It may be a future approach to develope some ground war too...


Edited by ESAc_matador
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My thougth was, may be something like DAWs, then, to make and to put some ground units moving with triggerzones, and finnally setting up CAS fligths tjat would attack if enemy ground units are in zone of friendlies. Automatically set an order to the CAS fligth.

 

It may be a future approach to develope some ground war too...

 

Or this : https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=179522

I can't think of a problem while using it

Helljumper - M2000C Guru

 

Helljumper's Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA

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Or this : https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=179522

I can't think of a problem while using it

 

Exactly. I made a simpler script about this. It was defensive.. so, as the enemy progressed, my own units will reinforce damaged ones, or move forward or even will fall back.

 

It is not difficult to make, but the Mbot campaign, need to support the saving ground units situation. But.... that is the future!

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After a lot of hair pulling, I finally managed to identify one more of those fantastic DCS AI quirks. Have an empty map and the AI is doing ok dive bombing (mostly at least). Add an SA-3 in radar range, but waaay out of engagement range and the AI decides it is wise to do an orbit, climb to 22'000 ft and bomb from level flight, with the bombs obviously going all over the place. AI Evasive Vertical Maneuvers disabled. Simply great!

 

I can't even file a proper bug report, since I am using a custom attack task script. Though I am fairly sure that there is nothing wrong with the script and this is on DCS. Grimes?

 

Edit: A single SA-6 STR in radar range has the same effect.

 

Today I finally managed to solve this problem, which turned out to be a major issue, as it caused the AI to be unable to destroy certain targets. It was completely due to an oversight in my custom attack script. In my script I assign tasks to individual aircraft in a flight, to let them attack targets simultaneously. What I did not realize is that if you assign a controller to an individual aircraft, it does not inherit the options of its parent group. Therefore the aircraft were falling back to the default Reaction on Threat behaviour, which caused them to do stupid stuff. The solution was to again enforce the Evade Fire value for the Reaction of Threat option for each individual aircraft, which forces the AI to do what I want them to do.

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Today I finally managed to solve this problem, which turned out to be a major issue, as it caused the AI to be unable to destroy certain targets. It was completely due to an oversight in my custom attack script. In my script I assign tasks to individual aircraft in a flight, to let them attack targets simultaneously. What I did not realize is that if you assign a controller to an individual aircraft, it does not inherit the options of its parent group. Therefore the aircraft were falling back to the default Reaction on Threat behaviour, which caused them to do stupid stuff. The solution was to again enforce the Evade Fire value for the Reaction of Threat option for each individual aircraft, which forces the AI to do what I want them to do.

 

Great job!

Do you know when you plan on releasing an updated beta version?

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Before Desert Storm, someone had to create a huge list of targets that should be destroyed.

.

 

Just been reading about this, no computer existed to manage it, faxed copies of target photos, managing multiple aircraft and intelligence....do you send a F117 with a Raven or save the Ravns to protect the F-16.....

 

I can post the link, it's eye opening!

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