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Old 10-19-2016, 10:48 AM   #71
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I think lessons were learned on both sides: VEAO has learned how NOT to develop a DCS module, while customers are more wary now of broken products that stay forever in beta with very little support from the dev.

As for myself, I'm fine with waiting for the things mentioned in the newsletter, but I'm not gonna give VEAO any more money before I see a final, feature complete, quality product from them. Be it Hawk, P40 or any other airplane. Not just another beta with promises that they will rework (again) half of it in the next few months.
There is an easy solution to all this: Read reviews, and do not buy beta-products. Gamers and simmers alike are notoriously bad at jumping on a chance to buy sonething brand new even when there are fully working alternatives.

I know it is a nieche, and we want to support developement, but that does not mean buying everything blind.


On the update itself, Ells, have you discussed plans for releasing info on the Hawks progress during the ASM rework? Might we expect info bits during the las quarter of the year, or will you keep working under the hood silently until the rework is closer to being finished? I would think the P-40 will probably steal the spotlight for the next two months.

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Old 10-19-2016, 12:44 PM   #72
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Slight correction: VEAO is recoding the ASM for the Hawk. Not the AFM. So systems, not flight model. Just to be clear.
Just to make sure, the AFM still needs quite a bit of work as well.
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Old 10-19-2016, 04:22 PM   #73
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Hmm, is anybody aware, that Aviojet is still coding/recoding their AFM, integrating Dual Cockpit etc.?

Not put a blame, just they had similar issues, so there are indeed other planes "affected", in some way, by the heavy development and some of the early code they produced...

Yet, all developers still, accept this as a challenge and go on to better their products, enhance existing stuff, even add new features, usually for free.

I don't understand the hostility around here to the companies breathing life into our precious hobby?!
Think about it, do you see a company like EA or Ubisoft taking over the sim niche any time soon? Any other alternatives? And you still try to blame, threaten, judge and hate these guys?

An interesting strategy. What are these people trying to achieve? Have some of the 3rd parties quit, so we have less planes to learn and keep it "more simple"?
Where did the word 'hate' come from ? I have discovered that it was my user error that was at fault, didn't know about the parking brake !! So, long story short. I took the module for a spin in the virtual sky, I don't have to worry about fighting cos I don't fight in the simulator, just fly around and whatnot. First of all the EFM flight model was excellent compared to other modules I have (almost all of them). The 3D model is brilliant, the skins are brilliant and the cockpit is poor. Was it worth buying...yes it was, I don't regret it...well I got it bought as a gift actually. However, it appears there are still issues, maybe not as many as I first thought.

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Old 10-19-2016, 04:28 PM   #74
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Parking brake.
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Old 10-19-2016, 05:40 PM   #75
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Where did the word 'hate' come from ? I have discovered that it was my user error that was at fault, didn't know about the parking brake !! So, long story short. I took the module for a spin in the virtual sky, I don't have to worry about fighting cos I don't fight in the simulator, just fly around and whatnot. First of all the EFM flight model was excellent compared to other modules I have (almost all of them). The 3D model is brilliant, the skins are brilliant and the cockpit is poor. Was it worth buying...yes it was, I don't regret it...well I got it bought as a gift actually. However, it appears there are still issues, maybe not as many as I first thought.

Mizzy
Mizzy I am Not talking about you...
These are normal "ooops" moments, no worries.

I was refering to the accusations, of VEAO "blaming" ED, which Chris obviously did not! And especially at the nonsense, that VEAO is the only third party that has problems.
I agree, they have been hit harder, than most, but it is the nature of complex software development, that things can easily go tits up and need to be fixed, reworked, scrapped or whatever.

On the other side Chris and pman where always very open and honest about their plans, status, and issues.
Beginning with the clear statement "the Hawk will be the testbed, from which we need to learn how to integrate a module into DCS. Expect delays and trouble along the path" and the latest news in post 1 of this thread... No evasion, no marketing blanks, only a phase of very reduced update and information, due to the shit-storms that rolled through these forums.

I would be very happy, if other companies producing Operating Systems, Notebooks, Enterprise Software would be as honest and direct in their communication, especially when it comes to features and issues.

I personally am very happy about the latest news and can easily cope with the wait, for the dual-cockpit an overhaul of the ASM (which was already astonishing) and look forward to it.
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Old 10-19-2016, 06:19 PM   #76
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Guys the topic is Quarterly Update Q3 2016 and the content in it.

Please stick to it, thanks.
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Old 10-19-2016, 06:38 PM   #77
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Ells talked about the P-40 module verification happenin "very soon" and after that it will be released to the public... Now, I wonder what might "very soon" mean. I take it that we probably have the P-40 in our hands before xmas... most likely before. End of this month? Possible?ish? Maybe?
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Old 10-19-2016, 06:42 PM   #78
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Ells talked about the P-40 module verification happenin "very soon" and after that it will be released to the public... Now, I wonder what might "very soon" mean. I take it that we probably have the P-40 in our hands before xmas... most likely before. End of this month? Possible?ish? Maybe?
All depends on how those steps go.
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Old 10-19-2016, 09:47 PM   #79
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All good discussion points and I'm not going to go over old ground again.
We have learnt and P40 is testament to that.

I'm happy to YouTube the P40 start up training lesson and taxi take off lesson, of which we are still working on refining; however I'm going to do it when they are more complete (text and voice).

I can't go into official review details for obvious reasons. And I can't give timescales.
The module will be fully reviewed by ED and TFC prior to release.

In terms of Hawk, yes I'll post details up as work is progressing.

I have spent the past couple of days at Jav's house going through an actual Hawk Pilots notes and checklist cards.
Apart from 3 items on the pre-start, start and post-Start checklists which have been omitted from our module for sensitivity reasons our Hawk was on the numbers every step of the way.
I stand behind the fact you won't find any other Hawk in a sim that matches what we have done.

Yes we have a couple of bugs that I mentioned in my original post with re-spawn but again Hawk is on the numbers for ASM.

Bbrz, Hawk EFM is currently in review jointly with ED. More details will be posted later.

I hope that answers most recent questions.
Keep them coming please.

Thanks,
Chris.
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Old 10-20-2016, 08:05 AM   #80
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Any chance of buying that P-40 early £75 quid?
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