Mirage 2000-5 vs F-16 Block 52+ Viper

Greece has already signed for upgrading their F-16's Block 52+ Adv. to Viper, but there are some military voices that insist that they should also get more Mirages 2000-5 offered by France cause they are superior to the F-16s specifically over the Aegean sea area. But why? what make the Mirage so special?

Greece has already signed for upgrading their F-16's Block 52+ Adv. to Viper, but there are some military voices that insist that they should also get more Mirages 2000-5 offered by France cause they are superior to the F-16s specifically over the Aegean sea area. But why? what make the Mirage so special?

Might be nothing to do with aircraft. Could be the the cost to service, fuel or just the size of the bribe

turkish F-16 shot down that su-24 a while back?

My guess is fuel quantities, need long legs for feet wet ops.

Fuel quantities would make sense given that the HAF needs to reach Cyprus and loiter there, but it's weirdto me that any M2k without CFTs could match a Viper with the CFTs.

Also the M2k has been used lots by plenty of nations in actual combat, from France to India. It's every bit as combat-proven as the Viper.

The F-16 in general is a proven weapons platform, I'm just guessing as to why the Greeks would want more Mirage 2000 aircraft.

Traditionally, the Greeks have used a Mirage in one shape or another. Mostly in the anti shipping role.

Given the fact that the Turks have lit a fuse by signing the Libyan - Turkish agreement to exploit the various reserves of Hydrocarbons in the med, the Greek/ Cyprus policy makers are looking at the prospect of a big naval engagement.

The infrastructure for a larger Mirage 2000 fleet is already in place, as opposed to buying F-16's which require either buying stocks of Harpoons, or be stuck with a lengthy intregration process.

Mirage 2000-5Mk.2 is a strategic capability platform for Hellenic Air Force. Due to SCALP-EG ... which is classified as sub-strategic ground aircraft, with a nominal radius of 250 km

The Mirage 2000-5Mk.2 is by far the most advanced air-to-air platform in the Hellenic Air Force. With capabilities that are not even intellectually present in any other type of fighter. The RDY-2 radar that "wears" the fighter, in addition to its larger target-beam radius than the Block 52+ APG-68 (V) 9, can detect and track up to 24 flying targets independently of their flight level! Of these, RDY-2 can automatically "blush", classify eight as the most dangerous and automatically encapsulate up to four. Against them it can launch a cobblestone (with a split time per missile) of MICA EM and IR numbers

The big trump of the RDY-2 in air-to-air engagements beyond the optical horizon (BVR), of course, is not only the automatic trapping of not one but four targets at a time. It's a risk assessment of the target ... If, for example, the system detects two targets, one that flies 20 miles at a speed of 300 knots and a cruise altitude of 5,000 feet and one that flies 40 miles at a speed of 400 knots. and at a height of 30,000 feet, it WILL NOT be the first to shoot the one closest! He will choose the one best suited (envelope as it is called in aviation) to launch a BVR rocket. That is, he will choose the one who has the MOST MOBILE ENERGY. The one who flies faster at higher altitudes and is therefore able to fire his weapons giving them clearly better kinematic performance!

It's something that everybody in the Greek F-16's flying freely admits. Even when many years ago the Greek Mirage 2000EGs had not yet been fitted with the mid-range R-530D, the dissimilar "blinds" the F-16's radars until they came into contact and virtually launched Magic II Even today all Greek flying fighters confirm that the RWR of the old ICMS 2000Mk.1 is better than the ASPIS II… For the newer ICMS 2000Mk.3 no reason to do so!

Mirage 2000-5Mk.2 is a strategic capability platform for Hellenic Air Force. Due to SCALP-EG ... which is classified as sub-strategic ground aircraft, with a nominal radius of 250 km

 

The Mirage 2000-5Mk.2 is by far the most advanced air-to-air platform in the Hellenic Air Force. With capabilities that are not even intellectually present in any other type of fighter. The RDY-2 radar that "wears" the fighter, in addition to its larger target-beam radius than the Block 52+ APG-68 (V) 9, can detect and track up to 24 flying targets independently of their flight level! Of these, RDY-2 can automatically "blush", classify eight as the most dangerous and automatically encapsulate up to four. Against them it can launch a cobblestone (with a split time per missile) of MICA EM and IR numbers

The big trump of the RDY-2 in air-to-air engagements beyond the optical horizon (BVR), of course, is not only the automatic trapping of not one but four targets at a time. It's a risk assessment of the target ... If, for example, the system detects two targets, one that flies 20 miles at a speed of 300 knots and a cruise altitude of 5,000 feet and one that flies 40 miles at a speed of 400 knots. and at a height of 30,000 feet, it WILL NOT be the first to shoot the one closest! He will choose the one best suited (envelope as it is called in aviation) to launch a BVR rocket. That is, he will choose the one who has the MOST MOBILE ENERGY. The one who flies faster at higher altitudes and is therefore able to fire his weapons giving them clearly better kinematic performance!

 

It's something that everybody in the Greek F-16's flying freely admits. Even when many years ago the Greek Mirage 2000EGs had not yet been fitted with the mid-range R-530D, the dissimilar "blinds" the F-16's radars until they came into contact and virtually launched Magic II Even today all Greek flying fighters confirm that the RWR of the old ICMS 2000Mk.1 is better than the ASPIS II… For the newer ICMS 2000Mk.3 no reason to do so!

Yeah that explains why! Thank you!

I am not a pilot, I have read this from some Greek defense magazine and have just translated it

But I think that's the way things are. The Mirage (and the f-16) are valuable to the Hellenic Air Force

Every fighter aircraft has advantages and disadvantages...

We need a 2000-5 in DCS!

We need a 2000-5 in DCS!

I totally agree

For what it worth, I think both Mirage 2000 and F-16 are combat proven fighters and plenty capable.

The reasons why Greek keep both fleet:

- Turkey has F-16 too and knows it very well. Mirage 2000 with ECM and missiles must have some tricks Turkey don't know about.

- France provided to Greece some key weapons that USA probably didn't want to provide to keep good relationship with Turkey (AM39 and SCALP/ STORM SHADOW) .

The 2000-5/Mk2 series has a trick up its sleeve since the introduction of the MICA, since they can fire them in TWS (Track-While-Scan) mode, their firing is completely undetectable at longer range by the target since they are not locked-on.

The target will only know it is targeted if; 1) the Mirage lock-s on for mid-course guidance or 2) it acquires the MICA electronically (pretty unlikely but possible) or visually.

During the first sorties of the Mirage 2000-5 in exercises with other NATO Air Forces, the pilots of the Escadron de chasse 1/2 Cigognes decimated raids of Tornados and F-16 in BVR while their pilots had no idea they've been shot.

Notably, the version of the MICA used (simulated) was the EM, as the IR variant wasn't yet in operation with the AdlA, the "stealth" firing of the MICA by the 2000-5/Mk 2 can be even more difficult to counter when both variant are used.

A Greek 2000-5 did shoot down a Turkish F-16 not so long ago.