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Old 12-03-2019, 11:57 AM   #31
Notso
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Originally Posted by Stubbies2003 View Post

The video showing the BAK system in action should tell you all you need to know. The aircraft is already firmly planted on the landing gear prior to engagement so there would be very little, if any, stress added to the landing gear. Because that system would also be engaged at the far end of the runway the aircraft is also travelling at a slower speed when it hits the arresting cable. Also you get to hear and see the BAK system take a LOT longer and farther to stop those F-16s than could be feasible on any aircraft carrier deck. That is to limit the amount of force the F-16 arresting hook has to absorb in the process.
To the red bolded statement above: That's not entirely true. There are approach end BAK-12 and other systems as well that would be used for certain emergencies such as unsafe gear indications, known brake failure, Hydraulic failure, etc where engaging the cable early immediately after touchdown is preferable to rolling down a 12,000 ft runway before getting into the cable. In fact MOST emergencies where an arrested landing is called for will use the approach end cable - not the departure end at the far end of the runway. Usually the only time a jet would take the departure end cable is if they discovered they had brake failure on landing rollout or they over-cooked the approach and they couldn't stop in time so put the hook down rather than going off the end of the runway. A BAK-12/14, etc is meant to be able to stop a high-speed aircraft - it just does it gradually with a really LOOOOONG runout of cable.

To the others who say a non-carrier jet with a hook (such as an F-16 or F-15) could land on a carrier once with some airframe damage - I'm very doubtful even of that. IF the gear didn't immediately collapse on touchdown AND the hook didn't skip over the wires..... I'm betting that as soon as the wire got to the end of its short runout - it would rip the hook right out of the back of the jet and the F-16 would keep going right into the water. I watched a video of an F-15 do an attempted approach-end arrested landing as a precaution because they had unsafe gear indications. The wingman was flying chase (at night) and had the TGP in IR tracking the jet to touchdown. You see the jet go over the cable and keep going. The pilot thought he had just missed the cable or the hook skipped over it (which sometimes happens). Turns out his gear was fine and it was just a bad indicator. But he stopped on the runway after a normal rollout anyway and had it towed back in. The MX guys came out and and they and the pilot discovered there was no hook attached. Everyone went "HOLY SH%T" and then they went back and watched the tape of the IR TGP. The first pass through the tape looked uneventful. When they played it back in Slow-Mo - you could see the hook cartwheeling and bouncing across the runway into the grass. What happened was the Bak-12 had failed and it never budged when the hook grabbed it and it just ripped it right out of the aircraft. The crew flying it never even felt it. Non-carrier tail hooks are relatively flimsy compared to a purpose built carrier A/C tailhook.

Last edited by Notso; 12-03-2019 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 12-03-2019, 03:38 PM   #32
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As soon as I can get t' cats n traps to work I'll release the 69 version... But I have another carrier as a test bed for that..

here's the edited lua file...
Well it sorta works. Jester is puss and punches out every single time, and I think the gear is being damaged cuz I can't seem to retract it after T/O. I've gone and reported these pressing issues to HB.
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Old 12-03-2019, 05:08 PM   #33
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To the others who say a non-carrier jet with a hook (such as an F-16 or F-15) could land on a carrier once with some airframe damage - I'm very doubtful even of that. IF the gear didn't immediately collapse on touchdown AND the hook didn't skip over the wires..... I'm betting that as soon as the wire got to the end of its short runout - it would rip the hook right out of the back of the jet and the F-16 would keep going right into the water. [...] Non-carrier tail hooks are relatively flimsy compared to a purpose built carrier A/C tailhook.
Yep, that is why I said in an earlier post that I hope they model the tailhook properly. It barely survives an engagement on the runway, a carrier trap would end terribly...very terribly.
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Old 12-03-2019, 07:15 PM   #34
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USN Has F-16s in an Aggressor Role, they do not deploy nor land on the carrier.

As for previously posted videos of the BAK Landings.

US Navy Carrier Arresting System Stops an Aircraft in under 350 Feet,

The BAK System Slows/Slots an Aircraft in ~2000 Feet

There's a Difference, a Major one, in Stress on the Landing Gear and Hook.

US Navy Aircraft The Gear and Hook Touch the Deck Almost Simultaneously as the Aircraft Stalls into the Deck.

w/ USAF and BAKS, the Aircraft Touches Down and Rolls over a deployed BAKS Line During roll out, which the Hook Grabs, and Modified B-52 Brakes Slow the Aircraft and Stop it.

An F-16 doesnt have the Gear Strength nor Hook Strength to withstand a carrier landing.
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Old 12-03-2019, 07:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzU View Post
I'd be surprised if the Navy even let the Viper land on the boat.

No chance at all. Fly alongside and punch out; jets are way cheaper than carriers, and you don't want your airfield in a body and fender shop because some yahoo wanted to try his first arrested carrier landing on your boat.


Though they did land a C130 on a boat once.


The only way an F-15/16 could take off is light with shear power and a 900' runway. They can't use the cats. No bridle hooks, even if the boat had any bridles on board.
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Old 12-03-2019, 11:59 PM   #36
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No chance at all. Fly alongside and punch out; jets are way cheaper than carriers, and you don't want your airfield in a body and fender shop because some yahoo wanted to try his first arrested carrier landing on your boat.


Though they did land a C130 on a boat once.


The only way an F-15/16 could take off is light with shear power and a 900' runway. They can't use the cats. No bridle hooks, even if the boat had any bridles on board.
Nose gear cant handle wet grass, let alone the Y Axis Torque of a catapult launch
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Old 12-04-2019, 12:07 AM   #37
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Nose gear cant handle wet grass, let alone the Y Axis Torque of a catapult launch
LOL.
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Old 12-04-2019, 12:59 AM   #38
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i think what op means is will be able to land on carrier like with the F5E utilizing tail hook.
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:17 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Kev2go View Post
i think what op means is will be able to land on carrier like with the F5E utilizing carrier hook.
Yes. We know. The point is it shouldn't, because if the damage is modeled correctly the hook on the F-16 would sheer off and the landing gear would collapse among other things.

As for the F-5E you could philosophically argue that even though operationally the hook was only used for runway emergency arrests, the F-5 did start its life intended as a Navy fighter and would go on the serve as the platform for the F-18. Its also half the weight of a F-16. All the same, unless some F-5 SME wants to correct me, it too should have the tail-hook modeled to shear off landing on a carrier.

For kicks, here's an interesting thread about F-5s on a Carrier.
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=167762
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:34 AM   #40
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Heh, this topic again...

A Viperdriver coming in at normal carrier-landing decent-speeds, if he WAS stupid enough to attempt a carrier landing in the first place, would pancake the aircraft onto the deck something fierce, where it'd happily FOD itself to death while going off the edge of the flight-deck in about 40 000 individual and heavily on-fire parts.

IF the aircraft and pilot MIRACULOUSLY survived the landing without damage and/or killing themselves, any carrier-launch, even if it was possible to attach the nosegear of the Viper onto the launch-shuttle of the catapult at all, would go something like this:

Either the NLG would snap once the pilot ramped up the power, or it would rip the entire assembly off the aircraft the second the shuttle was released if it didn't break due to the powersetting required to get off the boat in the first place. Both incidents would mean that the Viper is now happily trying to ingest the deckplates and/or whatever came bouncing out of the aircraft as it slams down onto the radome and radar, most likely snapping the longeron (central beam of the nose-section going backwards towards the fuselage).

The NLG and most likely large parts of the intake would land a fair distance in front of the carrier. However, nobody would bother even trying to track how far it flew since they'd be FAR more interested in trying to stop the raging fire that would be whichever parts of the Viper that was still on board, since those parts has a very nice mixture of fuel, various oils, a nice tank of Hydrazine plus a 5-liter tank of LOX (unless it was a bird that had OBOGS) all waiting to create bigger issues than a bigger problem than a Viper eating the deckplates would be.

The Viper has never been, isn't, and won't ever be carrier capable more than once.
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