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Old 10-09-2019, 02:03 PM   #11
Moody1204
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Hi everyone,
So, I did more test with the radar and I agree that it seems to work correctly.

The thing is it seems that the radar needs a lot of attention to find targets and lock them up. I believe the radar must be refreshing the target to lock it up and not showing you last know position (in TWS, mode).

You need to be very careful with the settings (especially elevation) to find and lock a target.

I wonder if the RCS is now implemented ? because I find hard to lock Low RCS fighter (F16 or Mig21, compare to larger jets).
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:36 PM   #12
le troll des bos
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Guys, I'm at a complete loss with this radar, and I feel like its detection capabilities are completely trashed.

I've just played on a PVE MP server where hostiles are visible in F10.

I am not even able to spot an ennemy under 20 NM which are on my 12, same level...
I've tried the different modes BFR, ENT and HFR... No matter the target aspect, speed or elevation, I can't spot ANYTHING until 15-10 miles, which is far too late.

What's even more frustrating is that AI M2000 can easily spike me at over 40 NM...

On the last encounter, I flew right at my target, same flight level, tried ENT and HFR, cone to 30° and 4 lines... Nothing appeared on my VTB. I switched to special mode with the supers when I heard the RWR missile launch alert, and it quickly picked up my target... Too late of course, the missiles were already on me.

I've never had so much trouble with the radar before. I know DCS is a challenging sim, but this is down right insane, and unless I'm doing something VERY VERY wrong (and in this case please correct me), something tells me this is not working as intended.

Cheers.

Last edited by le troll des bos; 10-09-2019 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le troll des bos View Post
Guys, I'm at a complete loss with this radar, and I feel like its detection capabilities are completely trashed.

I've just played on a PVE MP server where hostiles are visible in F10.

I am not even able to spot an ennemy under 20 NM which are on my 12, same level...
I've tried the different modes BFR, ENT and HFR... No matter the target aspect, speed or elevation, I can't spot ANYTHING until 15-10 miles, which is far too late.

What's even more frustrating is that AI M2000 can easily spike me at over 40 NM...

On the last encounter, I flew right at my target, same flight level, tried ENT and HFR, cone to 30° and 4 lines... Nothing appeared on my VTB. I switched to special mode with the supers when I heard the RWR missile launch alert, and it quickly picked up my target... Too late of course, the missiles were already on me.

I've never had so much trouble with the radar before. I know DCS is a challenging sim, but this is down right insane, and unless I'm doing something VERY VERY wrong (and in this case please correct me), something tells me this is not working as intended.

Cheers.
This is strange. You should provide a track/ video.
If you have Nvidia graphic card, there is an option to record the last 5mn (shadow play).

I noticed some things weird like flickering contact while looking up. Also locking contact can take some time (like if we had to wait for the contact to be refreshed).
But in single player, same level, I can detect F-15 head on past 45Nm.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo View Post
But in single player, same level, I can detect F-15 head on past 45Nm.
Same, I was able to detect a player F-14B at 45nm range.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:51 AM   #15
le troll des bos
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Thanks for the replies,

I'll try to set up a simple mission with various targets to test in single player, but my PVE multiplayer experience has been incredibly frustrating.

I'll try to have a more "scientific" approach next time I encounter these problems, but I think a refresher on what the HFR/ENT/BFR modes are best at would be relevant in my case.

From what I've understood:

BFR is great for targets without background noise (terrain), but terrible when in a "look down" configuration. Also suited for targets with a slow radial speed I think ?

HFR is required for firing missiles, and for targets with a high radial speed.

ENT is a mix of both and should (at least I assume) provide the best detection chances against a large variety of targets (speed/aspect/signal against background noise) but doesn't allow a "hard lock", nor missile firing.

Did i get something wrong ? How should I use the various radar options to increase my chances of detecting contacts ? Is there something more I can do ?

Thanks !
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:07 AM   #16
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IMHO, and based on some radar study I found on the web, DCS World is wrong with HFR detection on cold target.
Like it should 1/2 of front aspect range and it's more like 1/4.

ENT/ BFR doesn't make a significant difference in game.

So I stay in HFR.

You need to be aware of you vertical coverage.

Lines / 20Nm/ 40Nm/ 80Nm
2/ 12700ft/ 25500ft/ 51000ft
4/ 16000ft/ 32000ft/ 64000ft.
* computed values, but checked in game and good at +/- 1000ft.

As you can see, below 20Nm, even in 4 lines scan, it's quite narrow, and the closer the worst.
The best is to fly at least in pair, set at 80Nm to detect ASAP, one scan up, the other scan down.
Between 30-40Nm perform target sorting.
By 20Nm it's time to commit.
You have to be very cautious to follow target vertical moves with your radar elevation.

For instance it's really fast to drop 16 000ft, and it would exit you scan area if you don't take care.
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Last edited by jojo; 10-10-2019 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:15 AM   #17
le troll des bos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo View Post
ENT/ BFR doesn't make a significant difference in game.

So I stay in HFR.

You need to be aware of you vertical coverage.

Lines / 20Nm/ 40Nm/ 80Nm
2/ 12700ft/ 25500ft/ 51000ft
4/ 16000ft/ 32000ft/ 64000ft.
* computed values, but checked in game and good at +/- 1000ft.

As you can see, below 20Nm, even in 4 lines scan, it's quite narrow, and the closer the worst.
The best is to fly at least in pair, set at 80Nm to detect ASAP, one scan up, the other scan down.
Between 30-40Nm perform target sorting.
By 20Nm it's time to commit.
You have to be very cautious to follow target vertical moves with your radar elevation.

For instance it's really fast to drop 16 000ft, and it would exit you scan area if you don't take care.
Hi Jojo, thanks for your reply.

I've been extra careful to fly exactly at the same FL as my intended targets to ease things up, but no luck.

To be extra clear and somewhat summarize, the higher the closing speed, the more chances we have to detect a target, right ? I know the detection cone gets narrower the closer the target gets and made sure the upper and lower detection thresholds were within the altitude of my target on the F-10 map.

On the last encounter I described earlier, me and my target were facing head-on at pretty decent speeds, and on the same FL. Again, I'll try to set up a mission with various planes, aspects and speeds to double check my findings and impressions during this session, and re-examine my track.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:29 AM   #18
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Once out of the beam and hot aspect, I don't think that in game the closing speed will make any significant difference on detection range.
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:33 AM   #19
Moody1204
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Dumb (but not so dumb question) : do you use the radar antenna elevation control ?
I mean the axis which allows you to increase or decrease the antenna elevation.

If you don't use this to match your target altitude you will loose the contact as soon as it gets higher or lower.

Also, sometimes, when you turned on the radar the antenna is in a weird position and you need to adjust it.

Cheers

Last edited by Moody1204; 10-10-2019 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 10-10-2019, 03:05 PM   #20
le troll des bos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody1204 View Post
Dumb (but not so dumb question) : do you use the radar antenna elevation control ?
I mean the axis which allows you to increase or decrease the antenna elevation.

If you don't use this to match your target altitude you will loose the contact as soon as it gets higher or lower.

Also, sometimes, when you turned on the radar the antenna is in a weird position and you need to adjust it.

Cheers
Hi there,

Yes, as stated above, I've made absolutely sure to fly on the same FL as my targets, and if this was not the case, made sure the antenna elevation markers on my VTB matched the estimated targets' altitude/range. (I used the ruler to determine the target's range/bearing and its info for speed and altitude). Moreover, i kept the 4 lines selected at all times to maximize the vertical scan area.
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