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Micro Stutters


Bonz

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If anyone is having or has had micro-stutters during gameplay please read this and comment. I'd like to fix this problem and so far have been unable. I worked with ED/Support for a number of weeks/months last fall and was not able to determine the cause. I should state that ED was responsive and did suggest several possible solutions but ultimately to no avail.

Here's the problem/situation...

 

I'm having trouble understanding the cause of some micro stutters that I'm getting on my new machine. I have two active computers ...

Old Machine: i7-3430K CPU @ 3.2 GHz with 22 GB RAM, Windows 10 Pro with an 1TB SSD 850 EVO C drive, NVIDIA GTX-1070 Video Card

New Machine: i7-7820x CPU @ 3.6 GHz with 32 GB Ram, Windows 10 Pro with a 1TB SSD 960 EVO C drive (on Motherboard), NVIDIA GTX-1080 Video Card

 

Other equipment includes (On both machines):

TrackIR... Latest

Logitech G13... Game Keyboard

Fraps... used to compare frame rates

Voice Attack with VIACOM Pro for DCS

 

Other equipment NOT on both machines:

On my new machine:

SteelSeries Siberia 840 cordless headset

Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Controllers (Throttle, Stick, and Pedals)

Five other hard drives

 

On my old machine:

Sennheiser gaming headset

CH Product Controllers (Throttle, Stick and Pedals)

No other hard drives (My old machine had several extra hard drives before I purchased my new machine and it ran fine)

 

Both machines have an array of other software doing various things.

 

Both machines have DCS World 2.5 running and functional.

 

My Old machine consistently loads faster and runs smoother.

My New machine takes noticeably longer to load and has micro stutters... just enough to be noticeable.

 

Frame rates playing the same mission compared:

Old machine: 60 consistently... sometimes better

New Machine: 30-40 consistently... sometimes better sometimes worse.

 

I'd like suggestions on what could be causing this. If anyone has had this same problem and was able to fix it that would be ideal. Thanks for any and all help.

 

Bonz.

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I have posted a few times about a fix I found. Ccleaner and asus software where causing stutters. Stopping the relevant service or exiting via the tool tray was the answer. It took a lot of troubleshooting though and a complete system upgrade :thumbup:

 

Also try disabling swap file. Presumambly the DCS software is running on SSD's too?


Edited by Cibit

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Not sure if my onboard graphics have been disabled... The only item listed in Device Manager is my NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Card.

All Drivers are up to date.

I don't think Ccleaner is loaded on my system... it's not listed in Programs and Features.

I do have ASUS software running... for my motherboard and one of my three monitors and presumably I don't want to kill them.

As for disabling my swap file... What I've read tells me that with 32GB of RAM on my New system and 22GB on my old system... it's not a lack of RAM that causing my micro stutters.

 

I have two different Motherboards as well ... both BIOS' have recently been updated.

 

Other than with DCS... both computers work fine. It could be a setting within DCS, but I've been up and down and sideways with all those settings... At one point I attempted to set all Options the same on both systems with no obvious differences. It's conceivable that I missed a setting. So I'd like any suggestions along this line as well.

Bonz...


Edited by Bonz
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I Would disable any programs running.

 

Have you got the latest track IR software? Try DCS "without" track IR and Voice Attack running anyway to make sure it's not that / the usb connection, I would even try unplugging everything! and running DCS.

 

Win 10?

Disable everything you don't need under settings, start with Gaming DVR, game bar, etc.

You can also go through Privacy settings and disable as needed.

 

Strip it back to bare bones and test.

 

Make sure the Samsung NVMe drivers are up to date and install Magician SSD management utility and test the speed of the drive. If this is not right? (3,000 MB/sec) What are the settings for the NVMe under the BIOS?

 

See this post HERE with videos to get an idea how to find the settings in BIOS (Take a picture) and on that note, what motherboard are you running?

 

EDIT:

Also try taking off the GPU drivers using DDU found here, then reinstall them.

 

What monitor are you using, someone round here was having problems with a monitor overclocking, probably not your problem, seeing your only getting 30 - 40 frames on the new PC, Which is not right!

 

.


Edited by David OC

i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro

Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library

Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link

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I should be clear about something... There are times when I'm getting well over a hundred frames per second in DCS even on my new machine. However, when playing the same mission on both computers the old machine is faster time for time. In that same game, on my new machine, when I fly out over water my frame rate jumps much higher. Its the comparison value that is not right. My faster machine on paper is not faster in fact. Having said that...

 

1. What is process Lasso? Is this a well worn program, something I can trust?

2. TrackIR and Voice attack are running on both machines... I don't see them as the problem.

3. I've tried the bare bones approach and the old is still faster.

4. My Samsung NVMe driver is up to date... I'll test to verify speed... but think it's OK.

5. Motherboard on the New Machine: Prime X299 Deluxe with updated BIOS

6. I'm making the assumption that GTX 1080 (New machine) is or should be faster than GTX 1070 (Old machine). My version of the 1080 is not the GTX 1080-Ti.

 

Bonz...

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If u r having smooth gameplay on your old machine, then it confirms that your new machine has adequate hardware to run dcs without stutters. You did not mention your PSU. Looks like your VGA isnt getting stable power supply.

 

I have a dual 1070 setup, although sli is not working in DCS but I am not having any stutterss.

 

You can swap the power supply ans see how it goes.

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There are monitoring apps that really do not like to be installed together, causing a very bad desktop experience, down to BSOD or frozen screens.

 

Asus-Ai-Suite, Asus GPUTweak, MSI Afterburner, Corsair LINK.

 

I have had a very bad day yesterday while having this damn Asus GPUTweakII installed again.

It causes all sorts of anomalies, frozen screen after log-in, etc etc... deinstalled and all probs are gone. I think it interferes with Corsair Link.

MSi Afterburner and Asus GPUTweak together is also not good idea. The VRAM speed settings do not match at all if they hand over/ take over settings from one another. I ended up boosting my VRAM to 13500...instant pixel chaos and frozen.

 

CCleaner, not using it anyway but good to know its a troublemaker with it's services.

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Graph your GPU in MSI Afterburner.

 

If your GPU clock is a .I.I.I.IiI.IiiI kind of graph with low/high/low/high then THAT is a bad thing.

 

Tweak your card so it runs with a STABLE clock, like a FlatLiner, ________________________

 

Usually, those settings can mess this up:

 

Too high PowerTarget for your cooling solution ( clocks down due to heat )

Too high clock for fixed Voltage ( causing it to drop clock to stay in the watt-limit )

Wrong PowerProfile in NVcpanel ( HighPerformance needed )

 

Your GPU should spool up to say 1900MHz/11010MHz, 1040mV, and STAY THERE, ROCK SOLID !

 

Tweak your settings so your card does not go UP/down/UP/down all the time, that is a BAAAD config.

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I ran MSI Afterburner this morning and I also figured out how to run the frame rate counter native to DCS. What I discovered...

 

On my New Machine:

The frame rate counter with Fraps only looks every second.

The frame rate counter native to DCS samples more often.

Both generally agree but the native counter shows greater variability then is indicated by the Fraps counter. Some fairly big swings every second.

 

MSI afterburner also shows that my new machine has 16 CPUs and that CPU1 is the most effected by DCS startup and gameplay... it's running at 100% almost 100 percent of the time. Is that normal? Having said that the temperature for CPU1 indicated 0 degrees. That can't be good. I had to leave for work, but I plan to run MSI afterburner on my old machine as well. I'll post the results later today.

 

One last note... Both frame rate counters on my Old Machine are rock steady at 60FPS, over dozens of seconds, compared to both frame rate counters on my New Machine at the same point in the same mission. It's almost as if there is a setting or program that mandates a minimum of 60FPS and this program kills other processes to make that happen. If so, it's running on my Old Machine and not on my New Machine. Anybody know what that might be...??

Bonz.


Edited by Bonz
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Your CPU has 8 cores / 16 threads. Not 16 CPUs.

DCS is mainly a single-thread application (I believe a second thread is used for sound).

Sadly those multi-thread CPUs are not used well by DCS, which prefers a faster clock for a single thread.

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One last note... Both frame rate counters on my Old Machine are rock steady at 60FPS, over dozens of seconds, compared to both frame rate counters on my New Machine at the same point in the same mission. It's almost as if there is a setting or program that mandates a minimum of 60FPS and this program kills other processes to make that happen. If so, it's running on my Old Machine and not on my New Machine. Anybody know what that might be...??

Bonz.

 

Its called Vsync. It will never go above the refresh rate of your monitor presumably you have Vsync enabled on one machine and not on the other, which really begs the question are all you settings missaligned. Its hard to troubleshoot using different settings on different machines

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Fair question... I did go through and set them all the same at one point... Could be that over time I may have reset that setting... someone recommended I turn VSYNC off... may not have done so on both machines. I will check when I get home tonight. When you say it will never go above my screens refresh rate... does that mean if I turn Vsync ON my FPS will never get any better than 60 fps (assuming that's my refresh rate)?

 

As to the Core vs CPU vs Thread discussion... I understand all that, however the MSI Afterburner program refers to them as CPUs 1-16... as I recall. My point in bringing that up is that "Thread 1" is maxed out at 100% for nearly 100% of the time and then drops off to the low teens when DCS is shutdown. That seems like a hardware limitation. I didn't have time this morning to run MSI Afterburner on both machines... I'll run it on my Old Machine later today. I will also double check the configuration on my game settings on both machines so that I'm comparing Apples to Apples... I don't think that's the issue... this problem has been happening for several months... for sure during the time when I know all my setting were the same. The Vsync issue is different from the stutters issue, I think?

 

Bonz


Edited by Bonz
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Yes Vsync will lock your FPS to the monitor refresh rate. It should make things smoother.

 

RE your CPU usage. What is the GPU usage at the same time?

 

I run about 60-80% on the main DCS core but the other cores are working too up to 60% which is why people believe DCS is now using more than 2 cores. My GPU usage is 98%

 

Below you can see mine with a 4.9 O/C

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=178119&d=1517915913

i5 8600k@5.2Ghz, Asus Prime A Z370, 32Gb DDR4 3000, GTX1080 SC, Oculus Rift CV1, Modded TM Warthog Modded X52 Collective, Jetseat, W10 Pro 64

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OK... I just ran MSI Afterburner on my old machine. What a difference. My processor only has 12 threads... labeled CPU 1-12 in MSI Afterburner. None of them are pegged at 100 percent. All are busy... but well below 100%. All are varying up and down but averaging about 25%. None show 40 or above, none below 10%. GPU usage is about 70%. When I left the mission and returned to the DCS homepage there was a momentary fluctuation in CPU usage but then not much change. Almost all CPU (thread) temperatures were in the 40s. What does this mean?

1. I have a bad processor on my new machine?

2. I have a bad setting somewhere... in DCS or BIOS? or Both or somewhere else?

Vsync is ON on my old machine.

 

Bonz...

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Still stutters on new machine... the biggest thing I've learned so far is the information provided by running MSI Afterburner was interesting and maybe it suggests a path to a solution. The big question I have...

Why does my old machine i7 3430 with 12 threads balance the work load over all twelve threads way more than my new machine i7 7820 with 16 threads... which is very unbalanced with one thread running at 100% almost 100 percent of the time with the same settings flying the same mission? most of the other 15 threads are zero or nearly so... Both frame rates are now fairly stable around 60 fps (with Vsync ON), except when the demand is high and the FPS drop... this happens noticeably more often on my new machine which still has micro stutters.

If anyone can explain why this is happening I would really appreciate it. It just seems odd. Both monitors are set to 60 FPS. New machine has an older monitor... Dell 30 inches. The old machine has a new 32 inch monitor.

 

Bonz...

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Hey Bonz,

 

 

Well maybe the Mobo or CPU is defective.. you should get some readings on the other CPU threads and such when running a game..

 

 

Did you setup BIOS Correctly like add the XMP Profile and make sure HT is enabled?? Are you Overclocking this CPU, Usually when you get a new PC it is best to put it through some testing to make sure all is well.

 

 

Do you run any other games on the new PC and see if the cores do the same thing all on a single thread??

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I'm no expert on this and would check with some of the other guy's here, such as BitMaster, I believed he has played around with Process Lasso.

Many have said it has help make DCS better, there's also this old thread I come across while looking, not sure if this would do anything these days in 2.5? Test: Setting CPU Affinity

You perhaps need to bump DCS to a different core using Process Lasso? It doesn't sound right how it's working. To compare, this is what my machine looks like with MSI below, sounds like it's similar to your old one.

 

Check your in Affinity settings and perhaps change them like he does in this video and see if it makes a difference, if it does, Process Lasso should be able to fix this permanently.

 

 

The settings I have in MSI

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=179577&stc=1&d=1519200554

20180221_174942.thumb.jpg.ee8df3d7e66e33daa50f13777f10aabf.jpg


Edited by David OC

i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro

Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library

Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link

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David OC... thanks! your post looks like a possible solution. I'm at work but will give it a try later today. I'll try the Task Manager first and then give Process Lasso a go. I'm assuming from your comment that the TM solution is not permanent.

 

Bonz...

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David OC... thanks! your post looks like a possible solution. I'm at work but will give it a try later today. I'll try the Task Manager first and then give Process Lasso a go. I'm assuming from your comment that the TM solution is not permanent.

 

Bonz...

 

Yep, task manager is not permanent, you could try and see if placing the autoexec.cfg file works also.

 

C:\Users\[YOURNAME]\Saved Games\DCS\Config\autoexec.cfg

 

Try the "affinity_mask=192" and test, you can download the pre setup file here that SkateZilla setup. Not sure what the best setting would be for your particular CPU?

 

.

i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro

Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library

Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link

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OK... here's the latest. Success! That was the problem and the solution. No more Stutters!! Hurray!!!

First thing I tried was task manager. At first had trouble displaying all the threads, but after about a minute figured it out. Also figured out how to adjust my affinity. moved DCS from just one Thread to four, then six, then other configurations, all resulted in spreading the wealth and prevented any one thread from carrying the entire DCS load. Played the game and their was smoothness from end to end. I Then downloaded Process Lasso (PL) and quickly figured out how to adjust my affinity... and again smoothness all the way to the horizon. I'll need to become more familiar with PL to determine the best configuration for my system, but what I have now is centuries better. I've been trying to fix this for several months... Thanks to everyone who contributed especially David OC and the German gamer who posted the "possible fix".

No More Stutters... this is something to know... Keep this thread posted.

 

One additional note... when I first opened Process Lasso I noticed that all my apps, other than DCS, were spread to all 16 of my threads. DCS was the only program using only one.

 

Bonz...


Edited by Bonz
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Yeah, it really helps with many high-stress factor apps.

 

PL is a good thing !

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OK... here's the latest. Success! That was the problem and the solution. No more Stutters!! Hurray!!!

First thing I tried was task manager. At first had trouble displaying all the threads, but after about a minute figured it out. Also figured out how to adjust my affinity. moved DCS from just one Thread to four, then six, then other configurations, all resulted in spreading the wealth and prevented any one thread from carrying the entire DCS load. Played the game and their was smoothness from end to end. I Then downloaded Process Lasso (PL) and quickly figured out how to adjust my affinity... and again smoothness all the way to the horizon. I'll need to become more familiar with PL to determine the best configuration for my system, but what I have now is centuries better. I've been trying to fix this for several months... Thanks to everyone who contributed especially David OC and the German gamer who posted the "possible fix".

No More Stutters... this is something to know... Keep this thread posted.

 

One additional note... when I first opened Process Lasso I noticed that all my apps, other than DCS, were spread to all 16 of my threads. DCS was the only program using only one.

 

Bonz...

 

Can u please elaborate a bit more on how to change threads and please put some light on the affinity thing. And what is PL ? All this is alien talk to me.

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