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Sorbitsya L005 Data


Pitot

Sorbitsya L005 Data  

78 members have voted

  1. 1. Sorbitsya L005 Data

    • Yes
      72
    • No
      6
    • That would ruin DCS
      1


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EDIT: POLL Added so all of you who disagree can simply click option 2 or 3 and leave us discussing. :)

 

Russian Text

 

 

СОРБЦИЯ

Станция активных помех Л005-С. Активный ретранслятор.

 

Назначение:

Станция предназначена для защиты самолетов СУ-27.

 

ТТД:

Обеспечивает одновременную постановку помех в переднюю и заднюю полусферы.

Работает в 3 см. диапазоне волн.

Энергетический потенциал 1000Вт.

Против 2-х импульсных или квазинепрерывных РЭС, и 10 непрерывных РЭС..

 

Помеховое воздействие:

Нарушение работы каналов АСД, АСС и АСН.

АСД:

 

Высокочастотный шум (ВЧШ) АСС ДШ. АСН ПЧС.

 

Ложных целей по боковым лепесткам.

 

Принцип действия приемного устройства

Приемное устройство – многоканальный супергетеродинный приемник. Решает

следующие задачи:

 

Поиск по частоте и прием сигналов РЭС в рабочем секторе изделия.

 

Определяет направление на РЭС.

 

Вид излучения

 

Выбор наиболее опасного РЭС в данной обстановке

 

Подключение выбранного для прм. и прд. лучей прм. и прд. антенны ко входу прм. и выходу прд.

соответственно

 

Приемная антенна – многолучевая с игольчатой ДНА. Представляет собой

полусферу на которой размещен 31 рабочий облучатель и 4 компенсационных.

Впереди облучателей находится диэлектрическая линза. Ширина парциального луча

– 11,5 град.

Разветвитель-переключатель предназначен для параллельной передачи принимаемых

сигналов на все входы 37 канального смесителя и выбора формирования помех

луча по входу. Смеситель + Гетеродин предназначены для получения сигналов

промежуточной частоты. Временной различитель предназначен для повышения

разрешающей способности станции по направлению и блокирования сигналов,

принимаемых по боковым лепесткам ДНА. Определитель вида излучения

предназначен для селекции сигналов всех видов излучения, принимаемых по

рабочим каналам. Определитель вырабатывает сигналы на разветвитель-

переключатель и устройство управления лучами для коммутации выбранных

каналов.

 

Канал ретрансляции

Предназначен для формирования помеховых сигналов типа ДШ и ЛЦ БЛ. Помеха ДШ

вырабатывается путем частотной модуляции ретранслированного сигнала

узкополосным доплеровским шумом. Ширина спектра помехи 5КГц.

 

Система определения и воспроизведения частоты

Решаемые задачи:

- замена принимаемых импульсных и квазинепрерывных сигналов непрерывным

сигналом той же несущей частоты.

- формирование сигналов, сопряженных по спектру с сигналами облучающих РЭС.

Эти задачи решаются на промежуточной частоте 38-62Мгц. Понижение частоты входных

сигналов производится с помощью смесителя и гетеродина. На выходе гетеродина

вырабатывается сигнал разностной частоты fпр = fис – f

г. Для получения заданного значения fпр производится поиск по

частоте гетеродина. Поиск по частоте производиться в два этапа: грубый (шаг

200 МГц) и точный (шаг 2-3 МГц). Признаком окончания грубого поиска является

равенство fпр’=38-240 МГц, признаком окончания точного поиска f

пр’=38-62 МГц. С окончанием поиска гетеродин начинает работать на

фиксированной частоте.

Формирователь сигналов. Схема преобразования входных импульсных сигналов в

непрерывные представляет собой фазовой автоподстройки. В измерителе мгновенной

разности фаз с тактом Uтз определяется мгновенная разность фаз в

виде двоичного кода. Значение разности фаз запоминается в ЗУ и считываются

преобразователем «вход-напряжение», входными сигналами которого осуществляется

фазовая модуляция. В результате импульсный сигнал «превращается» в непрерывный.

Измерение мгновенной разности фаз прекращается при пропадании входного

импульса, но считывание из ЗУ продолжается и в паузах между ними, так

достигается непрерывность фазовой автоподстройки – ФАП. В смесителе непрерывный

сигнал восстанавливается до высокой частоты uвс.

 

Передающее устройство

 

 

 

UВЧШ, помеха типа высокочастотный шум;

UПЧС, прицельная по частоте сканирования;

U0, огибающая потока входных сигналов облучающих РЭС.

ВЧШ вырабатывается путем амплитудной модуляции сигнала высокой частоты с

шириной спектра 1,5МГц. Негативная модуляция снижает вероятность наведения на

самолет ракет , наводящихся на источник излучения.

ПЧС вырабатывается в результате негативной модуляции сигналов РЭС с

коническим сканированием антенного луча. Помеховые сигналы в ПРД усиливаются

по мощности в усилителе мощности до 100Вт. Устройство управления лучами

подключает вход усилителя мощности к излучателю передающей антенны с номером,

совпадающим с номером канала приемного устройства, по которому принимаются

сигналы РЭС подлежащие подавлению. В ПРД антенне отсутствуют компенсационные

облучатели.

 

 

If someone would like to translate this properly (I can understand most of it, but my russian is not good enough to write a quality translation) you would see some interesting things. Among them is that the Sorbitsya is capable of creating decoys - false targets - "ложные цели" - literally "false targets" apart from "noise" that is modeled in DCS.

Can we expect, in undefined future, to have this implemented?

Also, I'd really like for someone to translate this for other forum users and post translation here.

 

EDIT:

 

Valuable info found later in the thread - pasting the quote so y'all can find it easy:

Translated Panels:

 

Forward ECM Panel

PLlZ1QJ.png

 

Rear ECM Panel

F480CLm.png

 

 

Having a proper ECM environment is key to a proper battlespace, thus is essential for a combat flight sim. Which is why many people are calling for a better implementation of ECM across the board.

 

 

Answer and better info about them:

There are a lot of mistakes in that translation of both panels.

 

I will try to correct some things but i´m not an expert. i´m using the real Su-27SK as aid.

 

FIRS PANEL:

 

The Light is indicating the ECM ON-OFF, and below are two buttons OFF-ON. The Right side is used i think when a pair of Su-27 are flying in a group and the pilot can select a type of modulated oscylation for the ECM and the front or rear hemisphere emission of the ECM.

 

SECOND PANEL:

 

LEFT SIDE: Is for controlling the SPO Beryoza Station.

 

A rotary where the pilot can select:

 

-Altitude for the SPO radar emission reception

-Type of radar to focuse on ( Note that the Russian Letters are the same as the Beryoza Panel in front )

- Preselected radar type emissions from 1 to 6.

 

OBSERV Switch ( not Detect) : Is a reception only mode that analize the radar emissions and informs the pilot.

 

AUTO Switch: Automatic Work Mode for the SPO.

 

VOLUME KNOB ( not tone ): It´s a volume selector for the SPO tones.

 

RIGHT SIDE: If for controlling the ECM modes and regimes.

 

ILLUMINATION SWITCH: To Turn ON-OFF the ECM emission.

 

Altitude selector <3K >3Km. To select ECM emission when the Su-27 is flying over or below 3Km.

 

FRONT HEMISPHERE-REAR HEMISPHERE: ECM emission at the front or at the rear of the Su-27.

 

FIRST TRANSLATION: The next label is for the illumination of the Light FORBIDDEN TO USE ECM RADIATION. ( I think reading the manual that when the system detects a voltage peak because a long working period of the ECM, the light goes ON to notice the pilot to turn OFF the ECM before damaging it)

 

SECOND TRANSLATION: RESTRICTED ECM RADIATION: Reading some russian text, maybe this light-mode is to restrict how the ECM is working to limit the type of targets affected with the ECM emission. Maybe it´s a particular ECM mode to focuse in a very specific type of target-radar and to avoid interferences with the own onboard systems or other flying friendly planes.

 

And the last switch is to select from TARGET-AUTO. I don't know exactly whatit means but maybe is a switch to use the ECM agains a radar lock target or in an auto and wide general use against any target detected by the radar.

 

Take in count that is only an aproximation and a guess to some degree.

 

NOW FROM THE REAL MANUAL ALSO>

 

The left ECM container is the reception one, and the right the emitter.

 

The ECM system can work in azimut +-60º, in vertical +-30º, and in the forward-rear hemisphere.

 

The ECM can work in reception mode only or in transmission mode.

 

The ECM modes are:

 

1.- ECM against radars and radar guide missiles

2.- ECM against some preselected types of radars.

3.- Oscyllant ECM ( when the Su-27 flies in pairs )

4.-Low Frequency Doppler ECM.

5.-High Frequency ECM.

6.- ECM against ground ( to interfere with missiles when flying low and redirect them to the ground. )


Edited by Pitot
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Really interesting read, good find!

I just pasted it into Google translate, that worked pretty well.

 

"definition and playback frequency system

Tasks:

- Replacement of the received pulse and continuous quasi-continuous signals

signal of the same"

 

This confirms that the Sorbitsya is DRFM capable, which is no surprise as it is supposedly an AESA system, which would enable the creation of false targets as well as other jamming techniques.

 

I don't see this being implemented in the sim though, way to complex to model reliably. Especially for a flaming cliffs-level aircraft. The F-15s internal jammer can, by the way, perform about the same tasks as the Sorbitsya, so I don't see the point. It would just ruin BVR for everybody :)

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If you want every radar missile to miss and your radar not being able to track anything properly :)

 

Seriously though, the current implementation of ECM is not the best but there is limited unclassified information on western and eastern ECM systems. It would take a lot of (guess)work to make it accurate and again would absolutely destroy the current type of gameplay.

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Do you know what it does for real? Do you know how the ECCM for each side deals with it?

 

Why are your comments often so negative and borderline cynical?

 

I had an interesting find and posted it. Now we discuss. In the meantime, someone with further info may appear and post it. You know, get the ball rolling.

 

Your comment makes me feel like you're almost flaming at us. How does your comment contribute to "Sim Research" in this thread? I believe you, Sir, need to stop trolling. Because these kind of comments get people banned on these forums regularly. These kind of comments, without any quality or saying nothing new that isn't already obvious, is called trolling and attempting to suffocate quality constructive discussion. Your attitude is like we don't know this is not a complete info and you feel the need to show us how stupid we are. That is unnecessary. I tend to try to find good in people, so I try to make myself think that you're unaware how you sound, so take this as a friendly advice.

 

And for the rest of people involved: Yes, me and 90% of others, are aware of lack of info. Now we could discuss how could it be applied in the sim and try to find more info. Not like everything in this sim is modeled accurately - so that argument needs to stop being used on these forums. It is destroying any chance of discussing matters in a way that opens the door for creativity and peoples will to help and be a part of the development. Seriously.


Edited by Pitot

Don't ask, here's the answer: 95% of my posts are edited because I have OCD.

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I don't think anybody wants to discredit your efforts, but the information needed to model this is hard data, description of the hardware and algorithms that run on it, test data under controlled conditions, etc. Unfortunately the info in the public domain is just puff pieces, telling you some stuff about what they do but not how they do it. Without knowledge about what algorithms are used under what circumstances, there is no point in even attempting a faithful model.

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Why are your comments often so negative and borderline cynical?

 

I had an interesting find and posted it. Now we discuss. In the meantime, someone with further info may appear and post it. You know, get the ball rolling.

 

Your comment makes me feel like you're almost flaming at us. How does your comment contribute to "Sim Research" in this thread? I believe you, Sir, need to stop trolling. Because these kind of comments get people banned on these forums regularly. These kind of comments, without any quality or saying nothing new that isn't already obvious, is called trolling and attempting to suffocate quality constructive discussion. Your attitude is like we don't know this is not a complete info and you feel the need to show us how stupid we are. That is unnecessary. I tend to try to find good in people, so I try to make myself think that you're unaware how you sound, so take this as a friendly advice.

 

And for the rest of people involved: Yes, me and 90% of others, are aware of lack of info. Now we could discuss how could it be applied in the sim and try to find more info. Not like everything in this sim is modeled accurately - so that argument needs to stop being used on these forums. It is destroying any chance of discussing matters in a way that opens the door for creativity and peoples will to help and be a part of the development. Seriously.

 

+1000

 

And as they say, "something is better than nothing".

We will never have full info on anything, so you either don't model anything or you try to make an educated guess. This is what probably 99% of the sim is actually made of, I don't see why the ECM should be any different.

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I don't think anybody wants to discredit your efforts

 

I don't care even if someone does. That will always happen. I do care about good threads constantly being ruined on these forums by people who flood it with answers that are almost always so conservative that they ruin any chance of discussing ON TOPIC and putting in effort to improve DCS experience.

 

Just like the guy above me said: Big part of this sim are educated guesses. Why pulling out the knife immediately? I have a feeling that some people sit on these forums just to be naysayers, thinking it makes them look intelligent.

Don't ask, here's the answer: 95% of my posts are edited because I have OCD.

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We do not ban people for making comments, we ban them for breaking forum rules or reaching their warning limit.

 

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Warning guide http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=144679

 

 

With that said, please keep this thread on topic, off topic posts will be removed.

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Other things to add. A couple photos of translated panels from the English cockpit on the Su-27. This brings up some interesting questions and shows some lacking features.

 

Forward ECM Panel

PLlZ1QJ.png

 

Rear ECM Panel

F480CLm.png

 

Of course some of these translations are rough, and takes further interpretation. But here is what I can piece together from these. Of course take my interpretation with a grain of salt, as I am no ECM expert, Su-27 Expert, and im also again working through a translation.

 

Forward

 

  • Likely a manual override/manual use panel, as the rear panel is the only one that mentions any automation. Most likely only uses brute force method.
  • ECM is limited to either Forward or Rear Hemispheres, likely due to how the L005 operates
  • Jamming light should also show here
  • The "Modulation" switch is the only questionable item on this panel, I have no idea what it would do.

Rear, working from left to right.

 

  • Most likely the panel for automatic ECM use.
  • RWS Panel on the far left, likely used to set the overarching radar type or altitude to active the ECM, thus telling the pods in which band or method to jam.
  • "Detect" switch is probably used in conjunction with the RWS setting. So by flipping the "Detect" switch, the ECM will automatically jam when being painted by a radar (a fighter type in current setting).
  • No idea how "Tone" could tie into this, but likely the ECM should make a sound to warn you that it is on.
  • To be assumed the "Automatic" switch is used to activate the automatic features of the panel.
  • "Illumin" likely works like "Detect" but as an additional switch for use only when locked (though its safe to assume both can be used at once for obvious reasons).
  • ">3km/<3km" switch probably used as a modifier for the "Illumin" switch, telling it to only switch on above or below 3km (as you likely dont want to be using something like brute force method when attempting to use ground cover).
  • "FWH/RWH" switch again, looks like a further modifier for "Illumin"
  • Another switch that I am more shaky on is the "TGT/Auto" switch. This switch might be an overall modifier for the ECM system, telling the pods to ignore everything else (painting, locking, or not) but a target aircraft locked by the pilot.

Overall missing things

 

  • Automatic features
  • Lacking the its characteristic of only being able to jam one hemisphere at a time. (This would be especially useful in multi ship engagements as it reduces friendly Jamming).
  • Forward light
  • Tone?
  • Time limits to due to heat generation.

 

So as an example, if we wanted to keep it simple for FC3 implementation (only a few switches, brute force only). This is for the L005, but may partially apply to the AN/ALQ-135 as well.

 

 

  • Use normal ECM switch to activate automatic panel, use one modifier with E to change between "Detect only" and "Detect and Illumin", and another for manual activation of brute force.
  • In automatic, the ECM should take an extra second or so additionally to change between threat types, altitude, and hemisphere (as to simulate the pilot having to manually change such switches). The pilot again may just override them with manual, or switch the panel off if it lags behind changing threats.
  • In manual the pilot would have to define the hemispheres.
  • Light should show in rear for automatic, and front for manual override. Perhaps both for manual override but more info is needed.
  • A tone could be used to signal that the ECM is broadcasting, but what tone idk.

 

I did the best I could. But overall it seems that the L005, false contact creating or not- is missing vital automatic features (something the AN/ALQ-135 is also missing). It doesnt need to be perfect or 100% simulated, but I feel we should go as far as we can guess logically.

 

 

 

Having a proper ECM environment is key to a proper battlespace, thus is essential for a combat flight sim. Which is why many people are calling for a better implementation of ECM across the board.


Edited by TheFurNinja

In-Game Handle: Lutrafisk

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Other things to add. A couple photos of translated panels from the English cockpit on the Su-27. This brings up some interesting questions and shows some lacking features...

 

Nice post, a few notes:

It's very unlikely that the L005 uses noise jamming (what you probably mean with "brute force") as its primary jamming technique (like any modern ECM system). The first panel shown is likely the ON/OFF button for the whole system.

ECM systems normally operate fully-automatic with little user input due to the complexity of electronic warfare. There would be way to many parameters to configure if you'd try to do it manually. In normal operation the "AUTOMATIC JAMMING" switch would likely be turned on at all times, selecting all settings on this panel automatically.

 

The "DETECT" and "ILLUMIN" switches probably determine wether the system should operate passively (as in ELINT/ESM) or actively. In fact, the "DETECT" switch doesn't make much sense as an ECM system constantly collects information of emitters, and wouldn't be effective at all without doing so, so maybe your theory, that it only operates as "lock breaker", is correct.

 

The ">3KM/<3KM" switch possibly controls special modes like terrain-bounce, that are only possible at low altitude. But again, I would expect that to be automated as well. They surely don't expect the pilot to take the hands of the stick and switch all these switches with an AIM-120 inbound...

 

Having a proper ECM environment is key to a proper battlespace, thus is essential for a combat flight sim. Which is why many people are calling for a better implementation of ECM across the board.

 

I think you'd be surprised how much a proper ECM environment would suck. The current ECM modelling may lack huge parts and only supports noise jamming but this is because an accurate ECM-simulation would not only require a lot of resources (I doubt it's even doable without classified information) but would also ruin the "gameplay".


Edited by red_coreSix
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Nice post, a few notes:

It's very unlikely that the L005 uses noise jamming (what you probably mean with "brute force") as its primary jamming technique (like any modern ECM system). The first panel shown is likely the ON/OFF button for the whole system.

ECM systems normally operate fully-automatic with little user input due to the complexity of electronic warfare. There would be way to many parameters to configure if you'd try to do it manually. In normal operation the "AUTOMATIC JAMMING" switch would likely be turned on at all times, selecting all settings on this panel automatically.

This sounds logical as well. My logic is that the pilot would be setting the "if, than" format for ECM, with a manual override. Thus telling the ECM pods when and when not to use noise jamming (as to reduce extra noise and reduce attention to himself).

 

The "DETECT" and "ILLUMIN" switches probably determine wether the system should operate passively (as in ELINT/ESM) or actively. In fact, the "DETECT" switch doesn't make much sense as an ECM system constantly collects information of emitters, and wouldn't be effective at all without doing so, so maybe your theory, that it only operates as "lock breaker", is correct.

 

Was not quite my theory, but I overlooked that. Lock-breaking could very likely be its purpose.

 

The ">3KM/<3KM" switch possibly controls special modes like terrain-bounce, that are only possible at low altitude. But again, I would expect that to be automated as well. They surely don't expect the pilot to take the hands of the stick and switch all these switches with an AIM-120 inbound...

This is why I was thinking that the pilot is setting "if, than" formats. As the pilot would not have to not have to fiddle with the ECM too much if he plans out his flight and what is most likely his ECM situation. He would set the parameters and the ECM would jam if it fit the criteria.

 

I think you'd be surprised how much a proper ECM environment would suck. The current ECM modelling may lack huge parts and only supports noise jamming but this is because an accurate ECM-simulation would not only require a lot of resources (I doubt it's even doable without classified information) but would also ruin the "gameplay".

 

And this is partially what I meant by my second to last bit.

 

"I did the best I could. But overall it seems that the L005, false contact creating or not- is missing vital automatic features (something the AN/ALQ-135 is also missing). It doesn't need to be perfect or 100% simulated, but I feel we should go as far as we can guess logically."

 

It does not have to be any more than noise jamming as of now. But the L005 is missing automation and other characteristics like its ability to only jam one hemisphere at a time. Vital things like that should be in, while other forms of Jamming may be chosen left out due to a lack of data.

 

And while I can say this personally (I cannot speak for others). I feel like as this is DCS, and what many came to DCS for. If it is possible to include a more broad and realistic ECM spectrum we should have it. In fact the lack of "gameplay" would enhance things for many players. It adds depth and immersion, and would be satisfying to learn and use to employ properly. But that is just my two bits.:D

(blue is response)


Edited by TheFurNinja

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There are a lot of mistakes in that translation of both panels.

 

I will try to correct some things but i´m not an expert. i´m using the real Su-27SK as aid.

 

FIRS PANEL:

 

The Light is indicating the ECM ON-OFF, and below are two buttons OFF-ON. The Right side is used i think when a pair of Su-27 are flying in a group and the pilot can select a type of modulated oscylation for the ECM and the front or rear hemisphere emission of the ECM.

 

SECOND PANEL:

 

LEFT SIDE: Is for controlling the SPO Beryoza Station.

 

A rotary where the pilot can select:

 

-Altitude for the SPO radar emission reception

-Type of radar to focuse on ( Note that the Russian Letters are the same as the Beryoza Panel in front )

- Preselected radar type emissions from 1 to 6.

 

OBSERV Switch ( not Detect) : Is a reception only mode that analize the radar emissions and informs the pilot.

 

AUTO Switch: Automatic Work Mode for the SPO.

 

VOLUME KNOB ( not tone ): It´s a volume selector for the SPO tones.

 

RIGHT SIDE: If for controlling the ECM modes and regimes.

 

ILLUMINATION SWITCH: To Turn ON-OFF the ECM emission.

 

Altitude selector <3K >3Km. To select ECM emission when the Su-27 is flying over or below 3Km.

 

FRONT HEMISPHERE-REAR HEMISPHERE: ECM emission at the front or at the rear of the Su-27.

 

FIRST TRANSLATION: The next label is for the illumination of the Light FORBIDDEN TO USE ECM RADIATION. ( I think reading the manual that when the system detects a voltage peak because a long working period of the ECM, the light goes ON to notice the pilot to turn OFF the ECM before damaging it)

 

SECOND TRANSLATION: RESTRICTED ECM RADIATION: Reading some russian text, maybe this light-mode is to restrict how the ECM is working to limit the type of targets affected with the ECM emission. Maybe it´s a particular ECM mode to focuse in a very specific type of target-radar and to avoid interferences with the own onboard systems or other flying friendly planes.

 

And the last switch is to select from TARGET-AUTO. I don't know exactly whatit means but maybe is a switch to use the ECM agains a radar lock target or in an auto and wide general use against any target detected by the radar.

 

Take in count that is only an aproximation and a guess to some degree.

 

NOW FROM THE REAL MANUAL ALSO>

 

The left ECM container is the reception one, and the right the emitter.

 

The ECM system can work in azimut +-60º, in vertical +-30º, and in the forward-rear hemisphere.

 

The ECM can work in reception mode only or in transmission mode.

 

The ECM modes are:

 

1.- ECM against radars and radar guide missiles

2.- ECM against some preselected types of radars.

3.- Oscyllant ECM ( when the Su-27 flies in pairs )

4.-Low Frequency Doppler ECM.

5.-High Frequency ECM.

6.- ECM against ground ( to interfere with missiles when flying low and redirect them to the ground. )


Edited by Esac_mirmidon

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There are a lot of mistakes in that translation of both panels.

 

I will try to correct some things but i´m not an expert. i´m using the real Su-27SK as aid.

 

FIRS PANEL:

 

The Light is indicating the ECM ON-OFF, and below are two buttons OFF-ON. The Right side is used i think when a pair of Su-27 are flying in a group and the pilot can select a type of modulated oscylation for the ECM and the front or rear hemisphere emission of the ECM.

 

SECOND PANEL:

 

LEFT SIDE: Is for controlling the SPO Beryoza Station.

 

A rotary where the pilot can select:

 

-Altitude for the SPO radar emission reception

-Type of radar to focuse on ( Note that the Russian Letters are the same as the Beryoza Panel in front )

- Preselected radar type emissions from 1 to 6.

 

OBSERV Switch ( not Detect) : Is a reception only mode that analize the radar emissions and informs the pilot.

 

AUTO Switch: Automatic Work Mode for the SPO.

 

VOLUME KNOB ( not tone ): It´s a volume selector for the SPO tones.

 

RIGHT SIDE: If for controlling the ECM modes and regimes.

 

ILLUMINATION SWITCH: To Turn ON-OFF the ECM emission.

 

Altitude selector <3K >3Km. To select ECM emission when the Su-27 is flying over or below 3Km.

 

FRONT HEMISPHERE-REAR HEMISPHERE: ECM emission at the front or at the rear of the Su-27.

 

The next label is for the illumination of the Light FORBIDDEN TO USE ECM RADIATION. ( I think reading the manual that when the system detects a voltage peak because a long working period of the ECM, the light goes ON to notice the pilot to turn OFF the ECM before damaging it)

 

And the last switch is to select from TARGET-AUTO. I don't know exactly whatit means but maybe is a switch to use the ECM agains a radar lock target or in an auto and wide general use against any target detected by the radar.

 

Take in count that is only an aproximation and a guess to some degree.

 

NOW FROM THE REAL MANUAL ALSO>

 

The left ECM container is the reception one, and the right the emitter.

 

The ECM system can work in azimut +-60º, in vertical +-30º, and in the forward-rear hemisphere.

 

The ECM can work in reception mode only or in transmission mode.

 

The ECM modes are:

 

1.- ECM against radars and radar guide missiles

2.- ECM against some preselected types of radars.

3.- Oscyllant ECM ( when the Su-27 flies in pairs )

4.-Low Frequency Doppler ECM.

5.-High Frequency ECM.

6.- ECM against ground ( to interfere with missiles when flying low and redirect them to the ground. )

 

Bless_this_post.gif

Thank you for clarification! All information is needed.

In-Game Handle: Lutrafisk

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The ECM modes are:

 

1.- ECM against radars and radar guide missiles

2.- ECM against some preselected types of radars.

3.- Oscyllant ECM ( when the Su-27 flies in pairs )

4.-Low Frequency Doppler ECM.

5.-High Frequency ECM.

6.- ECM against ground ( to interfere with missiles when flying low and redirect them to the ground. )

 

Very interesting!

So "Oscyllant" is blinking, I guess, and "ECM against ground" is terrain-bounce.

You mentioned the manual states the left pod being receive and the right one transmit, are you sure the left pod can't transmit?

Because you would limit yourself by doing so (cross-eye jamming)...

 

Edit: sniped by GGTharos :D


Edited by red_coreSix
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Some info from "Overscans guide to Russian Avionics"

http://aerospace.boopidoo.com/philez/Su-15TM%20PICTURES%20&%20DOCS/Overscan's%20guide%20to%20Russian%20Military%20Avionics.htm

Ctrl+F and search L005 to find it.

 

 

"SPS-171 / L005S /Sorbtsiya-S works in the H/I band and consists of two pods installed on the wingtips of the Su-27, an interface with the mission computer, and a control panel in the cockpit. Each pod has phased-array antennas fore and aft. The middle section of the Sorbtsiya houses the receivers, emitters, and techniques generator. Among the jamming techniques employed by the system are noise jamming and terrain bouncing. The electronic phased-array antenna permits detection over a wide frequency range and the direction of more than ten jamming beams against air-to-air and surface-to-air threats.

 

The installation of the pods on the wingtips has many advantages explained Boris Akinshin, deputy chief designer at KNIRTI. First, the wide space between each pod allows a better coverage of the environment around the aircraft and better signal localization. In addition, the design of the pod is such that it can listen to and jam a threat simultaneously. For instance, when entering a threat zone, the forward part of the right pod will listen, searching for a ground-to-air threat, while the forward part of the left pod will perform the jamming. Such a division of work can be achieved with the rear part of the pods as well. "

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but would also ruin the "gameplay".

No it would not. Do you want a simulator or warthunder?

 

would absolutely destroy the current type of gameplay.

 

Current type of gameplay is 20+ airplanes rushing head on to each other on at least 80% of the servers. It turns this nice and complex sim into arcade with 0% fault on developers for that. :) You know that is true.

 

---

As for others, thank you (again) for contributing to the thread and defending the idea of closing this nice product even more to reality. Again, small reminder: A lot of stuff in DCS is obviously an intelligent guess. And done well in my humble opinion. So I am not doubting that they CAN do it well and not make a disbalance in the game. Also, pay attention to the fact that making L005 working as it should would make path to modeling a bit more accurate ECM for other planes ;) in the future.

Excellent posts, glad to be a part of this community thanks to this kind of people who contribute.

 

Please, if you don't agree with the need to enhance ECM in this sim and make it closer to the real deal, feel free to say so, but after that - let us others discuss this with any possible facts we can dig out. There is a reason it is called "research" and not "axiom". :)


Edited by Pitot

Don't ask, here's the answer: 95% of my posts are edited because I have OCD.

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You mentioned the manual states the left pod being receive and the right one transmit, are you sure the left pod can't transmit?

 

From a link in one of previous posts:

 

"The middle section of the Sorbtsiya houses the receivers, emitters, and techniques generator.

For instance, when entering a threat zone, the forward part of the right pod will listen, searching for a ground-to-air threat, while the forward part of the left pod will perform the jamming. Such a division of work can be achieved with the rear part of the pods as well."

I believe the thing you ask is just an example of how it can operate and do multiple tasks simultaneously. But hey, we're collecting data, this is awesome :D

 

P.S. There's a public profile of Akinshin at LinkedIn. ED could try talking to him. Not really hard to find people today. :D And like pilots and technicians often do Q&A on Reddit and elsewhere - we should all be perfectly aware that there is CERTAIN amount of info you can get by following public channels and talking to people - professionals. Quite enough to base that educated guess on. And notice nobody said we want better ECM in 2 months. All in it's time, but it is a major dent in this sim not to have it.


Edited by Pitot

Don't ask, here's the answer: 95% of my posts are edited because I have OCD.

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My fault.

 

What the manual says is:

 

In the left part of the container is the receiver, and in the right part the transmiter.

 

Sorry for the mistake.

" You must think in russian.."

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Current type of gameplay is 20+ airplanes rushing head on to each other on at least 80% of the servers. It turns this nice and complex sim into arcade with 0% fault on developers for that. :) You know that is true.

 

And proper ECM would make this worse, with everybody jamming himself to the merge. And, by the way, you can't force people to play exactly like a real pilot would fly missions. It's still an entertainment product, you don't have to fear for your life, thus you'll never act like a real pilot would (you can get closer to reality with nice community events like redflag or joint warrior though, just not on your ordinary public server).

 

As for others, thank you (again) for contributing to the thread and defending the idea of closing this nice product even more to reality. Again, small reminder: A lot of stuff in DCS is obviously an intelligent guess. And done well in my humble opinion. So I am not doubting that they CAN do it well and not make a disbalance in the game. Also, pay attention to the fact that making L005 working as it should would make path to modeling a bit more accurate ECM for other planes ;) in the future.

Excellent posts, glad to be a part of this community thanks to this kind of people who contribute.

 

Please, if you don't agree with the need to enhance ECM in this sim and make it closer to the real deal, feel free to say so, but after that - let us others discuss this with any possible facts we can dig out. There is a reason it is called "research" and not "axiom". :)

 

I did contribute to the thread, come on...

And I don't think there is no need to "enhance ECM in this sim", if we had the information necessary to provide a realistic (!) ECM scenario it would have been done already.

It simply isn't possible to model ECM realistically in a sim, again due to the complexity of the subject. Especially for a flaming cliffs aircraft with no clickable cockpit.

And even if we were to model the L005 in a realistic manner, you would have to integrate it simultaneously with all the other planes, not "in the future".

I'm just stating the obvious here, you will never get accurate EW modelling in DCS.

 

EDIT: I still think threads like these are really interesting and I'm, by no means, saying they shouldn't exist.


Edited by red_coreSix
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If anyone is interested and want to translate.

 

Russian SU27SK manual: ECM Pods section.

 

ECM

" You must think in russian.."

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´

 

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I did contribute to the thread, come on...

 

No, no, Sir, it was NOT my intention to say that you haven't. My intention was to say that people can and should say if they disagree with claim that ECM should be enhanced in the game - but just say. So that they are heard as well. But point was - let's not make this a discussion on should it be or not be, but gather data.

I will add poll to the discussion, so anyone who wants to disagree - can simply vote NO. :smilewink:

 

If anyone is interested and want to translate.

 

Russian SU27SK manual: ECM Pods section.

 

ECM

 

Can you put it to google drive or something, the website acts up. :D


Edited by Pitot

Don't ask, here's the answer: 95% of my posts are edited because I have OCD.

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