Bearfoot Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 About the whole manhour fuss.. You guys do realize that every member or members of their team has their own craftsmanship, so there is 3D Modelling, texturing, animations, coding and God knows what else there is. Half of the modules discussed here are already in the coding phase which usually takes the most time by far. So what do you do with the rest of the crew that does not know how to code but can only model? Right, you think of something new, you think ahead, you think about the future. And everytime they do that, and show it to the public, 50% of the people lose their shit and get hyped, the other 50% starts nagging about 'unfinished modules like the M2K' and 'they already are working on 5 new planes while they have not even finished 1'. I mean seriously, lets the developers do their job and we will do ours, which is buy their product,enjoy it and provide them with valuable feedback after we have acutally flown the thing. If we leave all the rest to them then this community would be so much better. Yep. Yep, yep, yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf5 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Another heli ? Hum, day one for me People fly planes, pilots fly helicopters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearfoot Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Flight model coding and avionics will be the major stumbling blocks for the first modern chopper that RAZBAM will develop. Those same coders will be also heavily needed when the RadarBAM fleet begins development. D .... says some random guy on the internet who really has NO idea, not a smidgen of a clue, of the work, workload, division of labor, organization of said labor, development pipelines OR schedules of the task. "Naaah, you're wrong. They'll be able to do it if they want", says some other random guy (me) on the internet who really has NO idea, not a smidgen of a clue, of the work, workload, division of labor, organization of said labor, development pipelines OR schedules of the task. EDIT: you may be right about those components being stumbling block ... but that does not mean they are going say, "oh, a bottleneck in the pipeline! dammit, we can't do a helicopter" are they? They may still get the low-hanging fruit first to keep their, e.g., 3D model people busy while other aircraft have the FM/avionics worked on, and just cross that bridge when they come to it, even if that bridge is 4-5 years down the line. EDIT2: and again, I am not saying you wrong about the AI thing. Just that the argument you are trotting out is a tired old one that has been explicitly discredited by developers who actually work on these things. Edited June 14, 2017 by Bearfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 .... says some random guy on the internet who really has NO idea, not a smidgen of a clue, of the work, workload, division of labor, organization of said labor, development pipelines OR schedules of the task. "Naaah, you're wrong. They'll be able to do it if they want", says some other random guy (me) on the internet who really has NO idea, not a smidgen of a clue, of the work, workload, division of labor, organization of said labor, development pipelines OR schedules of the task. Fundamental realities. I work in machining, so I do understand division of labor, schedules and development pipelines. I have two parts, both need to use the same machine. I must machine one, then switch to the other, both parts cannot be worked on at the same time. Now these parts may need to be machined on by several other setups on other machines, but if both need to be done on one machine, there creates a bottleneck. Let's go further, and say that only part of the part can be completed before it needs this machining work to be done, in which case I may have the rest of the job spread out on multiple other machines, but until I finish the work that needs to be done on the part on this machine, the whole program is stalled. Avionics and Flight Model are critical components and much is built on top of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearfoot Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Fundamental realities. I work in machining, so I do understand division of labor, schedules and development pipelines. I have two parts, both need to use the same machine. I must machine one, then switch to the other, both parts cannot be worked on at the same time. Now these parts may need to be machined on by several other setups on other machines, but if both need to be done on one machine, there creates a bottleneck. Let's go further, and say that only part of the part can be completed before it needs this machining work to be done, in which case I may have the rest of the job spread out on multiple other machines, but until I finish the work that needs to be done on the part on this machine, the whole program is stalled. Avionics and Flight Model are critical components and much is built on top of them. Bigger realities: you do not develop flight sims. You may understand the general principles of division of labor, schedules and development pipelines etc. etc. etc., but you have no clue how it works in a third-party shop developing for ED. None at all. I actually develop software myself. Guess what? I'll freely admit that would I too would be totally off base have on how ED or their third-party partners organize dtheir work if I were to extrapolate on my personal experience. But guess what? If you make an effort to actually LISTEN to what they say (or READ what they write), you would realize that your speculation that work on a helo module would result in slow downs on other modules is fundamentally wrong. That, my friend, is the most bigly reality for you :) EDIT: as for "much being built on top of avionics and FM", as the community A4 project, the Tu-22 project, Upuat's Bell 47 etc. all demonstrate, you can go pretty far with just the SFM and off the shelf components. Sure, once all that is done and time comes for the FM, that bottleneck may be an issue. But hey, that's 1,2,5? years down the road? And by that time, the bottleneck may not be a bottleneck anymore. Or all the current active aircraft have cleared that hurdle so it's now this guy's turn? See, no delay ... Edited June 14, 2017 by Bearfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyforDCS Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 But guess what? If you make an effort to actually LISTEN to what they say (or READ what they write), you would realize that your speculation that work on a helo module would result in slow downs on other modules is fundamentally wrong. That, my friend, is the most bigly reality for you :) Exactly this. Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Bigger realities: you do not develop flight sims. You may understand the general principles of division of labor, schedules and development pipelines etc. etc. etc., but you have no clue how it works in a third-party shop developing for ED. None at all. I actually develop software myself. Guess what? I'll freely admit that would I too would be totally off base have on how ED or their third-party partners organize dtheir work if I were to extrapolate on my personal experience. But guess what? If you make an effort to actually LISTEN to what they say (or READ what they write), you would realize that your speculation that work on a helo module would result in slow downs on other modules is fundamentally wrong. That, my friend, is the most bigly reality for you :) EDIT: as for "much being built on top of avionics and FM", as the community A4 project, the Tu-22 project, Upuat's Bell 47 etc. all demonstrate, you can go pretty far with just the SFM and off the shelf components. Sure, once all that is done and time comes for the FM, that bottleneck may be an issue. But hey, that's 1,2,5? years down the road? And by that time, the bottleneck may not be a bottleneck anymore. Or all the current active aircraft have cleared that hurdle so it's now this guy's turn? See, no delay ... Right, which is why mirage 2000 updates have been flowing out on schedule and the next BST module is well on its way forward. I happen to pay quite a bit of attention to what is stated and what goes on in 3rd party land, so I'll stand by my statements as to why I don't buy this being a full module until RAZBAM gives out some data on this to change my mind. I prefer to be realistic when I look at third parties instead of overly optimistic.nd think they have unlimited resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearfoot Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Right, which is why mirage 2000 updates have been flowing out on schedule and the next BST module is well on its way forward. I happen to pay quite a bit of attention to what is stated and what goes on in 3rd party land, so I'll stand by my statements as to why I don't buy this being a full module until RAZBAM gives out some data on this to change my mind. I prefer to be realistic when I look at third parties instead of overly optimistic.nd think they have unlimited resources. As I said, you may be right about the this being AI rather than a module. And, yes, you are right about there being delays in updates to RAZBAM's (and other devs) modules (as all effort --- as in all hands on deck, drop everything and do this -- was specifically diverted to preparing for E3). But your assertion that work on a new module will necessarily result in delays in existing modules is ... ... Well, why bother with this line of discussion, right? I mean, sure the developers themselves have said otherwise, describing how their work organization actually makes it more efficient to work on multiple modules simultaneously without one adversely affecting the other. But apart that first-hand evidence from people actually working on the product, I guess it makes more sense to go with what your gut tells you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypc Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 HYPE :holiday: 2 "You don't rise to the occasion, you fall to your level of preparation." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar98 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 HYPE :holiday: Well that's one way of doing it! :thumbup: Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk. Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas. System: GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV. Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koty Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 wait a sec... do we have that tanker? Cannot remember, haven't really been through the builder a lot yet.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireNZ Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Asus Maximus VIII Hero Alpha| i7-6700K @ 4.60GHz | nVidia GTX 1080ti Strix OC 11GB @ 2075MHz| 16GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200Mhz DDR4 CL14 | Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 SSD | Corsair Force LE 480GB SSD | Windows 10 64-Bit | TM Warthog with FSSB R3 Lighting Base | VKB Gunfighter Pro + MCG | TM MFD's | Oculus Rift S | Jetseat FSE [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flappie Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 wait a sec... do we have that tanker? Cannot remember, haven't really been through the builder a lot yet.. Nope, we only have KC-135 and S-3B for the blue side. Don't accept indie game testing requests from friends in Discord. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koty Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Nope, we only have KC-135 and S-3B for the blue side. That's sad... refueling hercules would be dope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelthunder Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I'm not surprised that there thinking of developing the Super Stallion,since they were mentioning it on their own Big Helicopters thread.It's probably to compliment the AV-8 Harrier once that aircraft is fully developed.With the F-18C coming soon and BST potentially making the Bell AH-1W Cobra.Will have almost the full current USMC Fleet minus the Sea Knight,Osprey and the Twin Huey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asla36 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I'm not surprised that there thinking of developing the Super Stallion,since they were mentioning it on their own Big Helicopters thread.It's probably to compliment the AV-8 Harrier once that aircraft is fully developed.With the F-18C coming soon and BST potentially making the Bell AH-1W Cobra.Will have almost the full current USMC Fleet minus the Sea Knight,Osprey and the Twin Huey. A set from dreams! Hoping for a navy set next. Honestly I'm living in disbelief now... I mean the summer break, an AV-8B N/A (and possibly an F/A-18C) during it, later on F-14, MiG-19p, and something Leatherneck has been cooking. Such good times! Not for any wallets though, they're gonna have a bad, bad time. DCS: MiG-23 [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Make it happen, and take my money! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Trooper Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 It would be great to see this chopper released. HP G2 Reverb, Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate. OpenXR, Open XR tool kit disabled. DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 0 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA. My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC. Vaicom user. Virpil Mongoose base CM3 & Mongoose stick CM2 (not set for dead stick), Virpil TCS with apache Grip. MFG pedals with damper upgrade. Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heloguy Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 You're right, Germany is just using a modified D-version. Now the question is: Which variant is RAZBAM developing? The picture Bugs is covering up is an E model. It has seven blades, and the FLIR arm. i9 12900k @ 4.9ghz, 32gb RAM Nvidia RTX 3090 Windows 11 x64 Valve Index Brunner CLS-E w/RS F16GRH, Virpil TCS Rotor Plus Collective, BRD F1 Pedals, WH Throttle, FSSB R3 w/WH Grip, PointCTRL v1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallberries Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Instabuy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exil Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 First Day buy! Omg! GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition - AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D - 64Gb RAM - Win11 - HP Reverb G1 - Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS (40cm extension) - VKB Sim T-Rudder MKIV Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG-51_Razor Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Please RAZBAM, if you're going to do the CH-53E, please model the a/c with a refueling boom! Of course, this would then require a KC-130. :smilewink: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focha Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Cool! Instant buy. ASUS N552VX | i7-6700HQ @ 2.59GHz | 16 GB DDR3 | NVIDIA GF GTX 950M 4 Gb | 250 Gb SSD | 1 Tb HD SATA II Backup | TIR4 | Microsoft S. FF 2+X52 Throttle+Saitek Pedals | Win 10 64 bits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert31178 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 "....... minus the Sea Knight,Osprey and the Twin Huey." I mean, if you're going to mention the N and the Sea Knight you might as well include planes like the Intruder as far as getting a full Marines airframe reunion..... ~S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhuss96 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Get to do some mine sweeping? And maybe even rescue some downed pilots along the way? :D Intel i7-4790K 4GHz l 32 GB DDR3 l MSI 1080ti l Gigabyte 97ZX l TrackIR + DelanClip l TM Warthog HOTAS l CH Pedals AV-8B l AJS-37 l A-10A l A-10C l F-15C l F-16C l F-5E l F-14A/B l F-86F l F/A-18C l Hawk l M2000 l MiG 29 l NTTR l Persian Gulf l Su-27 l Su-33 l Su-25 l Supercarrier l L-39 l UH-1 l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muamshai Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Might be a skin for Mi8 :D This space is available for your advertisement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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