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DCS: Mi-24P - What we know + Discussion


MrDieing

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You could do a simpler AI gunner for pilots to fly. Heck, even the Hind has such.... Just make it smoother talker and react with new options for targeting and reaction and it would be fine to start.

 

Flying Mi-24 with 30mm cannon is like flying Mi-8 with 23mm cannon pods, you really don't hit much with it. Or take a KA-50 and fix the 30mm cannon and try to hit at something.

 

You will quickly want to have someone else to do the firing and aiming with stabilization turret and aiming sight, and you just to fly around.

 

For 90% of targets people will be using missiles and rockets, for 10% it will be like cannon, against targets that can't shoot back and no one is protecting.

 

And Mi-24P anyways requires AI to launch missiles, as pilot can't do it. It is not different much to aim missiles as it is to aim rotating turret.

 

12.7mm is effective against anything you would really need to destroy with gun, from infantry, trucks to some APC and even some IFV, and even more against anything that flies. Want more firepower against infantry? You go back to rockets. There is IFV, AAA or MBT? It is missiles then if not rockets by change.

 

With KA-50 one can use cannon effective because automation and it is a turning, if it would be fixed, many wouldn't care for it.

 

I don't know anyone who would be with KA-50 like "I fix the gun as it is so much more effective that way"....

 

I take any day for cannon use the Shkval for longer ranges or HMS for close pop-ups.

 

And Mi-24P is so underdog compared to KA-50, that someone believing they can do as effective cannon engagements with it are just going to fool themselves until they get to fly it.

 

The UH-1 was overkill before ED fixed the miniguns effectiveness against armor. But it is 7.62mm https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=254520

And most APC or other vehicles ain't protected fully against 12.7mm.

 

VP with 23mm is of course more effective, but 12.7mm more versatile.

 

We could even have a "fake HMS" for gunner, you can not use it to engage others, but you would use it to command AI to look given direction and positions as general (so example AI either scan 45 degree direction or focus to 5 degree spot), so AI would concentrate their scanning in that area to find target. And having a 4-way hat compatible target priority commands, (infantry, AA, armor and transport) you would be able effectively tell AI what to aim and destroy. So you look at direction, command AI look there and give commands to "engage Anti-Air" and it will pick up from group of targets the AA units.

 

The "spot" would allow AI avoid "can't see" moments, as pilot as human does the spring and AI could right away find the unit there as human did the spotting. So no more "enemy tank, 11'clock, 30 kilometers" calls.

 

The player wouldn't at any given moment feel any disadvantage compared to P model, as you can be even more effective as AI use aiming to for turret.

It is like AI firing 12.7mm Kord in Mi-8, devastating effect.

 

The old BSK post

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3341529#post3341529

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I almost exclusively use the 30mm in the KA-50 in fixed bore sight mode.

Very rarely do I use it with the HMS and target tracking.

 

Everyone has their own opinion of course, and although the 2x23mm chin turret would be cool, I think the fixed 2x30mm cannon is a monster, and it's the one I would want the most.

"Your pumping days are over, Megatron!" -Optimus Prime

"This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence" -Vyvian

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I almost exclusively use the 30mm in the KA-50 in fixed bore sight mode.

Very rarely do I use it with the HMS and target tracking.

 

Everyone has their own opinion of course, and although the 2x23mm chin turret would be cool, I think the fixed 2x30mm cannon is a monster, and it's the one I would want the most.

 

What hardware you use for flying?

 

  1. Display
  2. SimPit
  3. Display + TrackIR
  4. VR

 

As when I had TrackIR, it was fixed for anything else than long range engagement. But VR changed all how to operate cannon.

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For everybody finding stuff that doesn't look right atm. just to remind you that these things are probably placeholders/WIP! Heck in the DCS:Syria pre-order trailer 2 weeks ago the flying MI-24P had not even an spinning tail rotor.....

Edit: Just for clarification, what i wanted to say, don't tear apart the module yet because of WIP/teaser pics/videos we get to see now, wait with that after the EA release.


Edited by unknown

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Yessssss, ED did it, finally we are in the right forum....and another surprise, the Hind over Latakia video...Oh God I will look this video again and again...

You see Grodlund, never loose the faight, today is party time !! :D:D

Yeees it is finally happening. I am trying to figure out where I could send my girlfriend for a few days after release????????.

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Yeees it is finally happening. I am trying to figure out where I could send my girlfriend for a few days after release????????.

 

 

And my kids!! Well we have time to make a plan. Oh man, it's always exciting to jump into a new fresh cockpit and start the study process. I dont't know why but with a new module, I always try to make a cold start without any manual and see how it goes :D

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Yeees it is finally happening. I am trying to figure out where I could send my girlfriend for a few days after release????????.

 

Fill your fridge, turn off your mobile phone, close the office door and put up a sign: I'm on holiday for a week!! :D

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What hardware you use for flying?

 

  1. Display
  2. SimPit
  3. Display + TrackIR
  4. VR

 

As when I had TrackIR, it was fixed for anything else than long range engagement. But VR changed all how to operate cannon.

 

I fly only in VR.

I tend to use the cannon as I use the rockets.

Flight director on, and a running or diving attack with bore sight.

 

But sure. Sometimes you can pick off soft targets from a little bit of altitude with the tracking cannon.

It sure is useful. But for me at least, the primary weapon of the 50 is the Vikhrs. Secondary are rockets. Cannon is a nice addon (or useful in A2A, also in bore sight of course)

"Your pumping days are over, Megatron!" -Optimus Prime

"This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence" -Vyvian

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I almost exclusively use the 30mm in the KA-50 in fixed bore sight mode.

Very rarely do I use it with the HMS and target tracking.

 

Everyone has their own opinion of course, and although the 2x23mm chin turret would be cool, I think the fixed 2x30mm cannon is a monster, and it's the one I would want the most.

 

(Didn't notice at first that your weren't talking about the Mi-24 Hind, but the Ka-50 instead.)

And this has probably been talked before, but for me:

 

The regular version with the chin turret machine gun with the "monocle/sights-pad" (or whatever it's called), is more interesting in terms of avionics employment procedures, than the plain simple fixed side-mounted twin barrel cannon.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-24#/media/File:YakB-127.jpg

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Flight director on, and a running or diving attack with bore sight.

 

Don't know why people keep using FD when trim button does it quickly and effectively through the attack run and then allows quickly to return back to AP. There is a reason why those AP channel buttons are on the right side, as you are not going to touch them, especially the FD middle of the flight.

 

But sure. Sometimes you can pick off soft targets from a little bit of altitude with the tracking cannon.

 

Well, the main targets are still "soft targets", as well lightly armored vehicles and infantry, so cannon is deadly up to 3.5-4 km ranges with slight altitude, and nicely deadly to 2-3 km with treetop level.

 

It sure is useful. But for me at least, the primary weapon of the 50 is the Vikhrs. Secondary are rockets. Cannon is a nice addon (or useful in A2A, also in bore sight of course)

 

Interesting, while many does use Vikhr, it is for me that cannon is as important as Vikhrs. As I use it against all kind targets because it is so effective and offers plenty of shells to fire.

In KA-50 combat trials they only fired two Vikhrs, while it was about over 1600 rounds from cannon and primary was the rockets.

 

Sadly the rockets are not properly modeled so all units using rockets are requiring direct hits.

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Well, my experience in the Shark leads me to disagree.

The OFP2 Rockets are quite effective at anything less armored than a BTR-80

I never leave home without them, and I qould argue the splah damge is enough to destroy groups of infantry, soft vehicles and light armored vehicles. Even without direct hits.

The S8-KOM needs direct hits, so I never ever use them.

 

On the subject of cannon/vikhrs and IRL trials. Well I guess it just depends on the mission designer in DCS.

When I design my own missions, I usually tailor them for helicopters. So less armor and more infantry and soft targets.

 

But most missions I play with friends are just littered with hundreds of tanks - so obviously it becomes a bit less realistic and more focused on Anti-Tank work

"Your pumping days are over, Megatron!" -Optimus Prime

"This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence" -Vyvian

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I almost exclusively use the 30mm in the KA-50 in fixed bore sight mode.

Very rarely do I use it with the HMS and target tracking.

 

Well, I do both... slewing the thing when hovering, but when doing passes, I stick to the boresight mode.

 

For everybody finding stuff that doesn't look right atm. just to remind you that these things are probably placeholders/WIP! Heck in the DCS:Syria pre-order trailer 2 weeks ago the flying MI-24P had not even an spinning tail rotor.....

Edit: Just for clarification, what i wanted to say, don't tear apart the module yet because of WIP/teaser pics/videos we get to see now, wait with that after the EA release.

 

Well, you could always argue with WIP, but it never hurts telling them what you see is not right (yet), since maybe they have missed something, as history has shown often enough already.

 

Don't know why people keep using FD when trim button does it quickly and effectively through the attack run and then allows quickly to return back to AP. There is a reason why those AP channel buttons are on the right side, as you are not going to touch them, especially the FD middle of the flight.

 

Well, I literally wore out my stick's 3rd button by doing it right in a quite short timeframe (pretty much the only noticable wear on that stick though) which made me use the FD instead since the button won't work anymore for prolonged time (won't stay pressed and keeps pulsing). And I just tap that switch before entering the Danger Zone and after leaving it. And you might believe it or not, even IRL you could temporarily hold the stick with the left hand and as opposed to the sim, there's pretty much always some friction adjustment on the collective.

 

The thing that really sucks is there's no friggen stick manufacturer on the planet who dares to bring a proper stick to the market anymore. They all keep sticking to tech from the last millenium (actually FFB is that as well, but I guess you'd get what I mean) and think it's good enough, worst of all, the weary customer keeps buying that stuff as there's literally no alternatives except for the massively overpriced Brunner (well, for Swiss conditions it's not that expensive, but the rest of the world can't afford that) that doesn't even work with DCS. But I don't wanna get too political here now, since this is OT as well. I just wish ED would help pushing it... I mean, they literally made TM bring the HOTAS Warthog and the Hornet grip, and they still do support FFB in DCS.


Edited by Eldur

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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definitely getting this .

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I was playing with the Mi-24 in mission editor and I got to make embark/disembark with 4 RPG units. I think I tried that before without success. Probably they are testing some adds with the current old model for mission editor?

That's not specific to the Mi-24. The embark/disembark function was broken for a long time, but got fixed in one of the recent updates. That applies to all helos though.

 

This thread has all the info on the issues that said function had recently: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=231952

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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That's not specific to the Mi-24. The embark/disembark function was broken for a long time, but got fixed in one of the recent updates. That applies to all helos though.

 

This thread has all the info on the issues that said function had recently: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=231952

 

Thanks. I was almost convinced the only Helicopters to do infantry transport was Mi-8 and Huey. By the way I did also test the vehicles and work perfect. We can transport infantry in vehicles and that’s something I appreciate a lot and was on my wish list. Good job by ED on this.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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  • 2 weeks later...

Actual Status by Newsletter:

Overall

The cockpit model: Aft Crew Station and Front Crew Station - 100% completed.

Animated cockpit objects: Aft Crew Station - 100%, Front Crew Station - WIP (40%).

The external 3D model - 100%

Animation of external model objects - 70%.

The flight model is complete now and will undergo fine tuning.

Power plant - 100%.

 

Helicopter Systems

Completed Electrical Power Supply System - 100%;

Fuel System - 80%;

Hydraulic System -100%

Oil Systems - 80%

Anti-Ice System - WIP

Fire Detection & Extinguishing Systems - 70%;

Brake system - 100%,

Air Conditioning System - WIP

Lighting System - WIP

Flight control system (including SAU-V24) - 80% (WIP - SAU setting)

Completed radio communication equipment - 100%;

Helicopter radio navigation equipment -> 80% (WIP - the map indicator is being revised).

Instruments and avionics -> 80% (WIP - connection of operator's cockpit objects).

 

Armament and Weapon control

Sight ASP-17V and Analog-Digital Computing Device (AСVU), AUTO and Manual modes - completed

Pilot weapon control panel (PUVL) - completed

Built-in cannon and mounts (30 mm, GSh-2-30) - completed (with all fire modes)

Universal gun or grenade launcher container systems (GUV-1) - completed

Bombing munitions and racks - completed

Guided weapons (9K113 Guided Missile System with 9M114 or 9M120 missiles) - WIP

PKI operator's sight - WIP

 

Rockets

UB-32 rocket launchers with S-5 rockets - completed

B8V20A rocket launchers with S-8 rockets - completed

B-13L rocket launchers with S-13 rockets - completed

APU-68UM3 rocket launcher with S-24B rocket - completed

 

 

The RWR SPO-10 is under development

The crew AI (pilot /co-pilot) is currently WIP

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Looks like we are pretty far along, fingers crossed for a Christmas present this year :)

 

Updated the main post aswell.

''Greed is a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction.''

Erich Fromm

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....

 

Thx for this just what's with firing unguided missiles so horizontally (Syria)?

Just for fun or before landing? I see the first time something like this.

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