Su 27 question

I was looking for correct subforum to put this inthere, but icould not find any SU-27 plase, so i will ask here.

I am having trouble landing and that training missions do not offer much of advice, other than complaining since I usualy break something.

I do try to maintain 270 km/h on landing, flare propperly with landing flaps, but I still usualy manage to break something. it is bit dissapointing for guy who has 400+ hours in FSX (not trying to compare those two here).

I would apreciate any tips and decent guide.

Thank you.

Can't help with the plane, as I don't own it, so for future reference, I'll just point to correct sub-forum :D.

https://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=388

Also check the general Flaming Cliffs 3 section one level higher for other info on Su-27 and remaining FC3 planes.

Thank you I will check there

Go slower, grease her in. Did you trim her? 270 sounds fast, try a little slower. Don't flare too hard, it should just glide in with a gentle bit of flare at the end. then pop the parachutes and sing the old communist internationale song for luck. The thing was built in Soviet Russia after all.

how much fuel were you attempting these landings with?

The most important thing is the landing AOA and G/S.

270km/h seem to be a acceptable speed but that's depend on your GW. If U are carrying 9t fuel and full loadout, 270 is bit slow; and if U carried 1.5t fuel, 270 is a bit fast.

U actually need a Vapp like the Commercial Jets can give U, but most fighter in the game do not have this ability.So AOA is the most important thing U need to control

I would apreciate any tips and decent guide.

 

Thank you.

Do you use the navigation mode "LNDG"? It gives you the circle that is calculated for your weight, all that you need to do is to keep your aircraft crosshair inside that circle. You will do perfect landings regardless your weight, speed etc.

Let the engineers solve the challenging situations for you ;)

The same thing is with Su-33 for carrier landing, Su-25T etc.

And if you don't have a HUD (Su-25A, L-39 etc) then just follow the ILS as it as well gives you the same thing.

I was looking for correct subforum to put this inthere, but icould not find any SU-27 plase, so i will ask here.

 

I am having trouble landing and that training missions do not offer much of advice, other than complaining since I usualy break something.

I do try to maintain 270 km/h on landing, flare propperly with landing flaps, but I still usualy manage to break something. it is bit dissapointing for guy who has 400+ hours in FSX (not trying to compare those two here).

I would apreciate any tips and decent guide.

 

Thank you.

First, don't try landing a heavy aircraft--especially one with a full fuel load. The Su-27 carries an abscene amount of fuel and you weigh far more than you expect. Practice with less than 50% fuel at first.

Second, your sink rate should not exceed 5 meters/sec until you know what you're doing and can control the final moments of the landing without exception. Ideally, as you cross teh threshold, you slow that sink rate to 3 m/sec and then flare once over the runway.

Thrid, let your AoA be the determination of teh proper landing airspeed. You shoul dbe at around 9-10° AoA, while coming in to land.

If you continue to have issues, get in touch. I'll record a track for you that you can, perhaps, get some insights from.

Thanks. i guess I could expect more precise manouvering is needed. I was so far trying to land withing training missions, so i am not too sure how much fuel I had in plane. I know I dropped all bombs before lading attempt. I will try to fly slower. But I guess that SU 25T reactions are still very much alive and that thing hates to fly too slow. I did land in LNDG mode that is true. but hud is confusing a bit cos I am sure i saw twoo crosshairs, one fixed and other that likes to "wobble" arround fixed one in center. I was watcing one video guide wich i will try to incorporate in my landings. I guess I still need to learn plane better. I have my paper with as much data as i could write so far. I know what i need to do then i guess I just need to be more precise and slower..

Thanks. i guess I could expect more precise manouvering is needed. I was so far trying to land withing training missions, so i am not too sure how much fuel I had in plane. I know I dropped all bombs before lading attempt. I will try to fly slower. But I guess that SU 25T reactions are still very much alive and that thing hates to fly too slow. I did land in LNDG mode that is true. but hud is confusing a bit cos I am sure i saw twoo crosshairs, one fixed and other that likes to "wobble" arround fixed one in center. I was watcing one video guide wich i will try to incorporate in my landings. I guess I still need to learn plane better. I have my paper with as much data as i could write so far. I know what i need to do then i guess I just need to be more precise and slower..

When you're in landing mode, you'll have two circle on the HUD. The larger one is the flight director circle. You fly in the direction it indicates. Ideally you keep it centered in the aircraft datum. But in reality, that only works, if you are close to where you need to be. Otherwise, split the difference so that you're adjustments aren't so extreme.

The flight director circle will pull the smaller circle into the aircraft datum. You are centered on both the glide slope and localizer, when the smaller circle is centered in the larger circle and both are centered on the aircraft datum.

You might want to try the Su-33, if you have that available. It can withstand a somewhat harder touchdown and, also, you have the AoA/Airspeed indexer to the left of the HUD. The indexer indicates when you are at the correct airspeed for your landing weight. So you have that visual affirmation that you are at the correct landing speed. And a transition to the SU-27 would be fairly simple, once you have more confidence in your technique.

EDIT: A few videos you might find helpful. The first is the Su-25T but the HUD elements are what you see in the Su-27. The 2nd is a deadstick landing in the Su-27 that you might find interesting:

Thank you.

Thank you.

In my experience, FSX's flight model is a bit simpler than either the current Advanced or Professional Flight Models used in most DCS aircraft. I think you'll find that flying DCS aircraft, for the most part, is more nuanced.

If you continue to have difficulties, save a track file of a landing attempt and post it (you can save it, when you quit a mission. You'll see the option to "save track"). Often it's the little things that get you and either I or someone else will come along to to offer specific suggestions.

That is nice tip. I will do that next time. I had one more ..not so good ..landing today, damaged engine lol, but I landed. I will save track next time. As i notices so far I am almost positive that i need some fine tunning of my thrustmaster hotas X. Plane is very jittery, aka too fast to respond for my taste. It could be that i flare too much on landing and just hit ground with my engines...

That is nice tip. I will do that next time. I had one more ..not so good ..landing today, damaged engine lol, but I landed. I will save track next time. As i notices so far I am almost positive that i need some fine tunning of my thrustmaster hotas X. Plane is very jittery, aka too fast to respond for my taste. It could be that i flare too much on landing and just hit ground with my engines...

That would do it. In fact I was wondering if you were pitching up too much. Pitch should be held to no more than 10° in landing. Beyond that you are likely to ground strike.

Go in your control settings/axes for the Su-27 and set a bit of curve to both the pitch and roll axis. I think I use around 15%. That will probably help a good deal.

I will do just that. Thanks

I will do just that. Thanks

Experiment with it and find the amount of curve that works best for you. I bet most of those problems will disappear. Someone with 400+ FSX hours should not be crashing routinely. :)

Yea. I hoped too. I flew anything from corp jets to twin turboprops and Cherokee. anyway. I found that track. I could not see how to rename it, but I will try to link default one recorded for last flight (strafe practise). This is with 15 degrees set on curvature on roll and pitch. I hope I attached correct file. I had to zip cos it was over 5mb.

I would apreciate if you can review my landing. I was low on aproach, but I usualy do this when I am not too sure about planes preformance.

I apreciate any advices.

tempMission.miz.zip

Yea. I hoped too. I flew anything from corp jets to twin turboprops and Cherokee. anyway. I found that track. I could not see how to rename it, but I will try to link default one recorded for last flight (strafe practise). This is with 15 degrees set on curvature on roll and pitch. I hope I attached correct file. I had to zip cos it was over 5mb.

I would apreciate if you can review my landing. I was low on aproach, but I usualy do this when I am not too sure about planes preformance.

 

I apreciate any advices.

Thanks. I'll take a look, though it might be tomorrow morning before I have an opportunity.

BTW, when you press ESC and quit the mission, the very first screen you come to has a button (lower middle of screen) to save the track. Clicking it will allow you to give it any name you want and save it.

I think I had to enable some settings in options, but I realised button in main menue and I will now at least save interesting tracks in there. I actualy went and replayed whole flight (I light up landing lights when was too late lol) and noticed that my landing profile at touchdown was not that bad ...at least to me. What I noticed is that I hot tarmac with bottom part of vertical stab, below fuselage. I am not sure but I am almost positive that this is there just for that, to guard engines on landing. I guess, now I need some practise.

I would apreciate nice multiplayer (training like) server suggestion where I could practise in company. Nothing better that crash infront of ppl hehe.

I guess that this would be advertising server so please write that on PM please.

Thank you

one of the best things you can do is upload a replay of your attempt so we're not randomly guessing for a diagnosis.

If you had tailstrike, you’re AOA is too high, so you’re probably too slow for your weight at touchdown.

(No, that’s not what those surfaces are for - they to increase stability at high AOA.)

Landing should be as smooth as butter in the Flanker (and easier then the F-15 atleast in my experience anyway), I dunno what you're doing but for me, no matter the amount of fuel I have or the payload, my landings feel like I'm coming in at the perfect angle onto the tarmac and coming to a stop. So it really makes me curious on what you're doing that causes your plane to break one way or another.

Yea. I hoped too. I flew anything from corp jets to twin turboprops and Cherokee. anyway. I found that track. I could not see how to rename it, but I will try to link default one recorded for last flight (strafe practise). This is with 15 degrees set on curvature on roll and pitch. I hope I attached correct file. I had to zip cos it was over 5mb.

I would apreciate if you can review my landing. I was low on aproach, but I usualy do this when I am not too sure about planes preformance.

 

I apreciate any advices.

To say you flew a low approach is an understatement. :)

The landing itself wasn't bad. You put the aircraft down safely with no damage and walked away. You did not tail strike or damage the engine nacelles during my viewing.

The approach itself would have scared the hell out of me, if I had been in the aircraft with you. Beslan doesn't have ILS for the Russian jets so you, more or less, have to make a visual landing. The flight director, for awhile, will lead you down at the correct altitude. From there you keep your landing point in the lower third of the HUD, slowing as you come down the slope. You want to arrive at the outer marker at around 300-320 km/hr and keep slowing further bit by bit from there being careful not to exceed 10° AoA in the process. (Once you hit 10°, do not slow further.)

At the same time, keep an eye on your sink rate. You should be around 5 meters/sec on your way down and reduce that to 3 m/sec or so prior to crossing the threshold. Flare and gently set down.

I've attached a track. It's your track but I took over just before the Initial Approach Fix (you'll know the point because I stopped fast forwarding and went back to real time with a flyby view). I also changed the time of day to make it easier to see what's happening. Hopefully it'll play back correctly. If not, I'll convert it to video and post it for you. I'd suggest watching it with my views, the first time through.

Aries101-Ironhand Landing.zip

Thanks for help guys. I will now do what most new pilots do. Fly airport circles. Thant should give me some feel for plane I hope. Also if I understand correctly, best bet would be to aproach ar 300-320 km/h up to outer marker and establish 4 m/s sink rate in full landing config I presume. Then from that point I need to also watch for my AOA not to exceed 9° (to be on save side). I hope that i will be able to learn in time what speed I can expect on certain weights and that config. Another thing to learn should be I guess correct aproach altitude, especialy on airports with no ILS. Btw, how do you setup ILS? Is it done automaticaly when you ask for guidance to airport? I ask that cos I usualy fly on servers and I mostly canot make any waypoints there or anything (or at least I dont know how to do that)...

So.. off to log some tailhits..khm...flight hours lol