How on earth do you do dogfights with this thing - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-03-2020, 01:46 PM   #1
Ancalime
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 14
Default How on earth do you do dogfights with this thing

I hear everybody saying: The 109 is an easy plane, the 109 is a master in dogfighting, you should be scared of a 109. The 109 does loads of damage etc etc etc

- Assuming that I lack a certain competence in dogfighting in ww2 planes, how the hell do I score kills in this thing. I take the vertical like everybody is saying, but I lose a ton of airspeed, stall out, turn over to the left (when enemy is at the right)
- I have track IR, the enemy passes me by, I look back to see what the enemy is doing and react accordingly. For example the enemy makes a turn, I do a vertical loop. I do the loop, am above the enemy, but am slow, the enemy goes up, shoots me
- I try to do a turn in this thing. Turning does not seem to be a thing in the 109, as I have read it is a boom and zoom fighter, not a turn fighter. Turning is almost certainly death for me.
- If I try to do something else, or react to the enemy's movements, I no time the enemy is behind me, ready to shoot me down....

What the actual f am I doing wrong here, since everybody is saying it is so god damned easy. I mean, I am maybe a bit of a noob, but I am not a complete idiot. Do you guys have tips, pointers, youtube clips I can watch etc? Or is it just practice practice practice...
Ancalime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2020, 02:42 PM   #2
DefaultFace
Member
 
DefaultFace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 742
Default

Lots of people here get very hyperbolic about which airplanes to be afraid of etc etc. Most of it is nonsense and you can safely ignore it. Similar with comments about turning and energy fighters, boom and zoom only etc etc. Alot of those comments are very simplistic, and can be easy to take out of context.

Purely performance wise the 109 is very capable in DCS. IMO its one of the most difficult aircraft to get that performance out of though, and handling takes a bit more practice to get used to compared to some of the other airplanes.

If you want to fly the 109 well you should pay special attention to flying coordinated and smoothly. Practice turns, climbs etc etc in Free flight and watch the ball to get used to how much rudder you need and how the airplane feels when its coordinated. The higher difficulty AI, even though it "cheats" FM wise, can also be very good to practice flying cleanly against.

Really the biggest secret of flying the 109 (and all the planes in dcs) is just the stuff above, use the rudder properly, and dont be ham fisted with the stick.

Of course if you want to know more about dogifghting there are plenty of books and youtube channels to look for basics, but alot of it comes down to practice.

Its also worth noting that the stick forces in the 109 are much higher than the other airplanes, so playing with the throttle and trying to fight at lower speeds will generally be more advantageous than high speed fighting. Too much or too little energy can both be bad.

This book is supposed to be pretty good for basics: http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/.../inpursuit.pdf

As well as Requiems youtube channel, which is mostly with clips from the other sim, but it all applies more or less the same.

Good luck, S!
__________________
9./JG27

"If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS

"In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin
DefaultFace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2020, 03:15 PM   #3
Ancalime
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefaultFace View Post
Lots of people here get very hyperbolic about which airplanes to be afraid of etc etc. Most of it is nonsense and you can safely ignore it. Similar with comments about turning and energy fighters, boom and zoom only etc etc. Alot of those comments are very simplistic, and can be easy to take out of context.

Purely performance wise the 109 is very capable in DCS. IMO its one of the most difficult aircraft to get that performance out of though, and handling takes a bit more practice to get used to compared to some of the other airplanes.

If you want to fly the 109 well you should pay special attention to flying coordinated and smoothly. Practice turns, climbs etc etc in Free flight and watch the ball to get used to how much rudder you need and how the airplane feels when its coordinated. The higher difficulty AI, even though it "cheats" FM wise, can also be very good to practice flying cleanly against.

Really the biggest secret of flying the 109 (and all the planes in dcs) is just the stuff above, use the rudder properly, and dont be ham fisted with the stick.

Of course if you want to know more about dogifghting there are plenty of books and youtube channels to look for basics, but alot of it comes down to practice.

Its also worth noting that the stick forces in the 109 are much higher than the other airplanes, so playing with the throttle and trying to fight at lower speeds will generally be more advantageous than high speed fighting. Too much or too little energy can both be bad.

This book is supposed to be pretty good for basics: http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/.../inpursuit.pdf

As well as Requiems youtube channel, which is mostly with clips from the other sim, but it all applies more or less the same.

Good luck, S!
This sounds very helpful, I will give this a try! Thank you! And of course lots of practice needed
Ancalime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2020, 05:10 PM   #4
amazingme
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancalime View Post
This sounds very helpful, I will give this a try! Thank you! And of course lots of practice needed
Use the trim Luke!!! When turning hard.. that is. That's not real, but hey, who said the FM was real?

Sent from my Redmi 5 using Tapatalk
__________________
Specs:
Spoiler:
Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

Settings:
Spoiler:
2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5
amazingme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2020, 05:24 PM   #5
DefaultFace
Member
 
DefaultFace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 742
Default

Actually there are definitely 109 pilots who used the trim in combat. Walter Schuck mentions doing it while in a dogfight with some Hurricanes.

But Im not sure how useful it is in DCS. Best practice is to just set it a little tail heavy and not really mess with it in the middle of turns. Works well with an FFB stick.
__________________
9./JG27

"If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS

"In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin
DefaultFace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2020, 05:36 PM   #6
amazingme
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefaultFace View Post
Actually there are definitely 109 pilots who used the trim in combat. Walter Schuck mentions doing it while in a dogfight with some Hurricanes.

But Im not sure how useful it is in DCS. Best practice is to just set it a little tail heavy and not really mess with it in the middle of turns. Works well with an FFB stick.
Yeah, but how many degrees per second, in real life?
__________________
Specs:
Spoiler:
Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

Settings:
Spoiler:
2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5
amazingme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2020, 05:41 PM   #7
DefaultFace
Member
 
DefaultFace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 742
Default

Don't think he had time to measure....

Idk IIRC he said something like he whipped it back or something like that so it couldnt have been too slow.
__________________
9./JG27

"If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS

"In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin
DefaultFace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2020, 05:48 PM   #8
SVgamer72
Member
 
SVgamer72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 397
Default

Check out the YouTube channel "The Air Combat Tutorial Library"

His work is based on another game, but it 100% applies to Warbirds and dogfighting.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...D0ksFD3CwLa2UE
SVgamer72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2020, 06:59 PM   #9
amazingme
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefaultFace View Post
Don't think he had time to measure....

Idk IIRC he said something like he whipped it back or something like that so it couldnt have been too slow.
It does seem quite slow in DCS, don't you think?
__________________
Specs:
Spoiler:
Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

Settings:
Spoiler:
2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5
amazingme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2020, 08:37 PM   #10
golani79
Senior Member
 
golani79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,196
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amazingme View Post
It does seem quite slow in DCS, don't you think?

I don´t think you would be able to operate it faster in a real one.
__________________
>> DCS liveries by golani79 <<
golani79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:04 PM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.