F-15C/D Approaching the Chopping Block Soon?

They could, they just don't because right now we have two versions of the F-15 When I mentioned F-15E everyone got hung up.

Removing the CFTs has to be done at the depot. It isn't going to happen.

As for training, many air forces train their pilots too do both, its just not done in the US because the current F-15Cs are dedicated A2A platforms therefore there's no need.

A2A only training results in better A2A. This is tried, tested and true. Once you start spending stuff on other things, A2A degrades.

Guy/Gal's, I personally don't think building a new F-15 of any sorts is a good idea at all, not just for tactical reasons but for cost reasons. There would have to new production lines open, that costs a lot.

AFAIK, those production lines are still open (for E variants, to be more precise).

Removing the CFTs has to be done at the depot. It isn't going to happen.

 

A2A only training results in better A2A. This is tried, tested and true. Once you start spending stuff on other things, A2A degrades.

Well, if some later F-15E variant would replace the F-15C/D, I would presume they would be assigned to those dedicated A2A squadrons so no capability lost there.

The Viper is an A2A fighter, not an Air Superiority fighter, So my point was that if you were to replace the F-15Cs with F-16s you'd loose capability. The F-16 won't ever be as good as the F-15 in the A2A role.

 

 

You were right the first time - the F-16 was originally designed as pure A-A - but it got a slight redesign and went into production officially as multi-role because that's what the USAF wanted.

F-16 is not that far behind especially if it can utilise other sensor types in a networked system of systems.

This might mean less dedicated Air Superiority pilots and there likely would be a skill degradation if only the F-22 community are left to that role.

However is an F-15C guy/gal really even an Air Superiority pilot in today's changing air combat paradigm? - or are they just Air Superiority against lower tier forces? Last time I checked their A-A future consisted of being not much more than missile carriers to supplement the real Air Superiority fighters (5 Gen).

Whatever happens...the F-15C will live on forever in DCS World. Long live the EAGLE.

They won't. That's an assumption that simply won't happen. F-15Es will always be tasked with their primary mission, and that's why as an air superiority jet, they'll probably always be tasked with CAP only vs. lower threats. Fighter sweeps and other fun 'real air superiority' stuff will be conducted by aircraft that are either A2A to begin with (F-22), or quickly configurable for A2A, like the F-16.

In many ways, the F-15E will be replaced by the F-35, IMHO.

If you want real air superiority, fighter sweeps, etc, you keep F-15Cs until they're either useless, falling apart, or ready to be replaced by whatever F-22's will be replaced with.

Just my opinion.

Well, if some later F-15E variant would replace the F-15C/D, I would presume they would be assigned to those dedicated A2A squadrons so no capability lost there.

I think there might be a problem with both part obsolescence and airframe fatigue on the F-15C fleet. The F-16C replacement option seems a realistic and affordable scenario to me, as there are already plans to introduce SABR AESA radars on the F-16.

Flying aircraft until they literally fall apart would serve no ones interest I guess. As long as we can keep flying the fantastic F-15C in DCS, I'm happy :)

I think there might be a problem with both part obsolescence and airframe fatigue on the F-15C fleet. The F-16C replacement option seems a realistic and affordable scenario to me, as there are already plans to introduce SABR AESA radars on the F-16.

 

Flying aircraft until they literally fall apart would serve no ones interest I guess. As long as we can keep flying the fantastic F-15C in DCS, I'm happy :)

Ask the USMC how they are doing with prolonging the retirement of their legacy hornets....

The F-15Cs will be around for a few more years,

By that point they airframes will be aging rapidly,

F-15Es and Proposed new variants are more strike AC than Air Superiority.

Time to Give those F22As something to do while they still can.

I think everyone agrees that F-22 should have been the replacement, and cutting short their production was an incredible mistake. But there are only 187 of them, that is less than 4 per US state? Those who cut this short dealt the USAF a blow that no enemy would ever be able to pull off.

It would more than make sense to fill the enormous gaps by using F-16's coming free due to F-35 replacement for ANG air defense.

we back into the 50s worried about the bomber menace again?

What I was talking about, structural problems with F-15C/D airframes: http://aviationweek.com/defense/center-fuselage-rebuild-could-be-f-15cd-achilles-heel

I guess the USAF's retirement proposal didn't came out of the blue.

This isn't news ... they either have to do it or not, and they knew this decision was coming a long time ago.

I was under the general impression that they wanted to get rid of pilots and move to uavs more? Or is that just one of those media circulated rumors based on current popular ideals?

UAVs are certainly a thing, but they're not going to just manned aircraft ... at least not any time soon.

I was under the general impression that they wanted to get rid of pilots and move to uavs more? Or is that just one of those media circulated rumors based on current popular ideals?

No, the USAF I know atleast is begging for it's pilots, and especially fighter pilots to stay in. Their is a massive shortage going on and it looks like it'll just get worse. Don't let the media fool you

we back into the 50s worried about the bomber menace again?

No, more just about that Chinese and Russian menace

BFBunny, UAVs need pilots too...It's not like they're some Terminator-style autonomous killing machines.

I was under the general impression that they wanted to get rid of pilots and move to uavs more? Or is that just one of those media circulated rumors based on current popular ideals?

From the AF times;

Work on the pilot and maintainer shortages.

 

The force is short 1,555 pilots — 1,211 of them fighter pilots. Among maintainers, the Air Force has 3,281 vacancies.

 

The shortfalls in these critical — and connected — fields have far-reaching effects across the force.

 

And officials are trying everything they can — from offering hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash incentives to eliminating unnecessary tasks and extra duties — to keep the airmen they have.

The Air Force is considering offering hundreds of thousands of dollars to pilots who agree to stay

I will endure flight training, if they waive my medical condition (Hypothyroidism).

But they wont.... their loss.. lol.

They won't. That's an assumption that simply won't happen. F-15Es will always be tasked with their primary mission, and that's why as an air superiority jet, they'll probably always be tasked with CAP only vs. lower threats. Fighter sweeps and other fun 'real air superiority' stuff will be conducted by aircraft that are either A2A to begin with (F-22), or quickly configurable for A2A, like the F-16.

 

In many ways, the F-15E will be replaced by the F-35, IMHO.

 

If you want real air superiority, fighter sweeps, etc, you keep F-15Cs until they're either useless, falling apart, or ready to be replaced by whatever F-22's will be replaced with.

Here I assume you mean the F-15E's in service with the USAF already; what I was referring to was replacing the C/D variants with some of the newer E variants (development of which was paid by foreign air forces) if the C/D retirement was due to some structural problems.

But, if the retirement is due to financial reasons (e.g. to reduce the number of different platforms for maintenance), obtaining new airframes would depend on the available funds for purchasing new airframes (which don't seem to be available) and if the level of commonality between the E's and this newer variant is large enough for it to make sense over keeping and upgrading the C/D's as was originally planned.

Retirement is due to the Fleet Aging.

They have a couple of choices:

Re-manufacture the longerons (not that expensive, IIRC) and the wings (expensive), or retire the fleet.

Wasn't there a mention of center fuselage on the previous page as well?

It's funny how they already upgraded the radars and are awarding funds to Boeing to replace the TEWS, only to start realizing now that they can't afford the structural upgrades necessary to keep these old things flying long enough to make those upgrades viable.

Somewhat surprising that a country like US with a huge military budget can't run it's Air Force's procurement properly which then has to scrap for funds just to get by (e.g. has to ditch recently upgraded A-10C's, etc.) while some of the allied air forces operate superior variants of its mainstay fleet (e.g. F-15E, F-16C/D).

The Retirement will start with ANG, and wont Start til 2020, and will not be an Overnight Operation, and would take 3 or 4 years.

They are going to Retire the older Airframes First while upgrading the newer ones.

They are going to Retire the older Airframes First while upgrading the newer ones.

Yeah, the so called "Golden" ones. Perhaps I misunderstood something, but, I thought the thread is discussing rumors that the whole C/D fleet might get scrapped despite the ongoing upgrades?

There's only 230 or so F-15C Airframes w/ 130 or so being ANG, and 100 or so being USAF. and Not all of them are being upgraded, the Younger Airframes likely will be upgraded to last the next 3 years + retirement/transition time.

Easily Filled by the Younger 170 or so F-22As and 1100+ F-16s.