How to get properly aligned for landing?

Landing properly continues to evade me. And i have it all wrong. Starting from final approach, I struggle with aligning the plane correctly to the runway; I am always angled and I've read that this is done with rudder but...it is rudder alone or a combination of rudder and ailerons? How is this applied, for instance left rudder plus left aileron at the same time, one first than the other, aileron contrary to rudder? Sorry about asking such an elemental thing but i really need help on this, thanks in advance. :cry:

land landing systems

Hi....i have the same problem.....the ILS system on carrier landing is great....but on land i dont know any system to help.

If there is a crosswind component the best option will usually be to bring the aircraft down to 10 - 20 feet in a crab, and then use rudder to align the nose of the aircraft with the imaginary runway axis ( left or right rudder depending on the crosswind component being from starboard or port side ), and opposite ( into the wind or upwind ) to keep the wing on that side a little lower than the downwind wing, or simply the wings level if the wind is not too strong ( bellow 3 m/s ).

If you come to land with some good power then other effects - prop effects - will contribute to yaw your aircraft nose to the left, an effect which is enlarged by the effects of the deployed flaps. You'll have to align the nose with the rw axis using a bit of right rudder to counter it, unless there is already a crosswind component from starboard compensating the prop effects...

The idea is to touchdown with the wings level and the aircraft longitudinal axis aligned with the runways centreline as much as possible, or with the upwind slightly down if there's a stronger crosswind.

First of all, make Yourself a no-crosswind mission in the editor to figure out the basics before bumping up the difficulty. I don't remember if the Lochini approach instant mission You've been playing to death lately has any crosswind component, but if it indeed does (judging from Your description), it would certainly not be the best mission to learn landing any propeller driven airplane.

Mustang is the easiest of DCS warbirds to land, because it's the only one which has trimmable controls in all three axes, it doesn't yaw all that much from prop effects when changing engine settings and it's the only one which has steerable tailwheel (but let's concentrate on everything prior to touchdown first).

Start with training correct approaches, while trimming, trimming and once again trimming. With gear down, flaps down, about 25" of manifold pressure @ 2700 RPM and sideslip trimmed out, the plane almost makes a correct 120 mph approach by itself, with barely any inputs necessary. Then even smooth throttling back just above the runway doesn't cause issues.

Repeat until comfortable, and then we'll go for crosswinds.

I don't know if actually this mission has a crosswind component but this issue with alignment happens to me in every mission, training or quick start I try; I just have a really hard time aligning the plane correctly to the runway and I am pretty sure even with no crosswinds. I get close to it but never right, I always see the runway "angled" to some extent in front of me.

Good God knew what he was doing when he provided me with a very short sight, which in my youth excluded me of my dreams of becoming a pilot...

nevertheless, I'll keep trying here! And thanks for all your help.

OK then, Your description is a bit too vague to figure out if the problem is caused "only" by not turning towards runway properly, or by some constant sideslip, which is there for some reason even in no-wind conditions, so let's make this clear first.

I presume You know how turn and slip indicator on Your instrument panel works and why You should always trim the rudder to keep "the ball" centered whenever You make any change to power or RPM settings?

No, Art-J, i am afraid I don't use ruder trim for other than take-off...never have used it on my landing attempts.

Turn indicator...I know where it is, but i really have not used it. The other one you mentioned, slip indicator, i will need to find it (maybe I have seen it but i don't recognize it by its name)

what are you telling me is to use rudder trim to keep ball centered after any changes to power or rpm settings, correct? I will try to do that and will report results back...

btw, is the "slip indicator" the one shown on manual as "flight indicator"?

Thanks a lot.

Post a short track otherwise we can't see what you're doing

No, Art-J, i am afraid I don't use ruder trim for other than take-off...never have used it on my landing attempts.

 

Turn indicator...I know where it is, but i really have not used it. The other one you mentioned, slip indicator, i will need to find it (maybe I have seen it but i don't recognize it by its name)

 

what are you telling me is to use rudder trim to keep ball centered after any changes to power or rpm settings, correct? I will try to do that and will report results back...

btw, is the "slip indicator" the one shown on manual as "flight indicator"?

 

Thanks a lot.

Yes.......trim the aircraft for landing and I would say especially for landing. But as was stated, when you get the RPMs down, and you keep your aoa consistent, you should not need to deal too much with keeping the ball centered if there is no crosswind. The plane should keep itself pretty straight. But if it's not, you may have the trim set heavily one way or another. But make no mistake, rudder trim is important from takeoff to landing. I always have the Mustang trimmed around 3 degrees for takeoff. Although not mandatory....It Makes things much smoother.

Artmustel, if You use rudder trim as per manual only for takeoff and don't touch it later, that would mean You fly in slip or skid (sideways) all the time. If that's the case, no wonder You find it difficult to land, as Your plane is constantly pointing in different direction than it's actually flying.

I don't have access to the DCS Mustang manual at the moment, but google for turn and slip indicator - it's a pretty generic device for most small aircraft in the world and it looks exactly the same in all DCS warbirds except the Spitfire, so You'll easily find it on instrument panel. Also fire up youtube and search for vids about skid, slip and the indicator itself - there are plenty of them, showing why it's one of the most important instruments in aircraft anyway.

Artmustel, if You use rudder trim as per manual only for takeoff and don't touch it later, that would mean You fly in slip or skid (sideways) all the time. If that's the case, no wonder You find it difficult to land, as Your plane is constantly pointing in different direction than it's actually flying.

 

I don't have access to the DCS Mustang manual at the moment, but google for turn and slip indicator - it's a pretty generic device for most small aircraft in the world and it looks exactly the same in all DCS warbirds except the Spitfire, so You'll easily find it on instrument panel. Also fire up youtube and search for vids about skid, slip and the indicator itself - there are plenty of them, showing why it's one of the most important instruments in aircraft anyway.

That was kind of what I was thinking. If he trims it for takeoff (Manual says 5 deg.) and just uses his rudder to keep the ball centered from there. When he tries to land, the tail will be very heavily trimmed for full throttle while he's landing with very little throttle.

I understand what you are trying to tell me, Art-J and Zimmerdilan, but these are missions, like Final Approach to Lochini. that start next to runway and with no rudder trim at all.

I am believing that its not the settings nor the joysticks, its just me having difficulties to align plane. For instance if I see runway a bit to my left, I try to correct but them when I put plane horizontal again I see I am way too far to the left. If after several attempts I am centered with threshold, then I am not with the whole rw, but angled. Not to mention that as I try all the above, my plane s acting like a rollercoaster.

I hope I'll eventually get this right. I really appreciate your help.

Hi,

( Reset all trim-settings LCtrl T )

What hardware / modell do you have ?

Joystick

Rudder Pedals ?

As suggested by @Buzzles upload a track

Start a landing mission (a short mission if possible)

In the following screen "Details" you can see the weather settings - scroll down

Wind ?? m/s

Turbulence ?? m/s

Try to land

End the mission with ESC

QUIT

Then "SAVE TRACK" as e.g. "P51 landing.trk"

You will find the file under C:\Users\ xxx \Saved Games\DCS\Tracks

Hi Blech.

On this mission "Final Approach Lochini", details are:

wind at ground 1 m/s, 105 degrees

at 2000m, 6ms, 101 degrees

at 8000m, 15m/s, 153 degrees

My hardware is a Intel core I7 processor, Nvidia 670M video and 16gigs of ram, my joystick ia a Thrustmaster T-stick X and I don't have rudder pedals.

I will try to record a track and will post it here.

OK, I made a track...but no idea how to upload it here...lol...bit more help pls?

Thanks!

P-51Lochini.trk

Hi,

Edit your thread

Go to Manage Attachments

Upload file from your computer

Upload

I did it Blech...it is on my previous reply.

Thanks!

Hi,

See it

But for today I will be offline - meeting friends - we have strong-beer-time in Bavaria :drink:

You are excused lol! Just the right reason to be offline.

Have fun!

Just keep your slip ball centered and try to come in from about 4km from the airfield. A longer final gives you more time to adjust. I usually try to get on the imaginary runway extended line with light aileron inputs, but you use all the controls as necessary, just keep practicing and you'll get the feel for it, then you'll be doing pattern landings in no time :)

If the ball is not centered then your plane may be pointed directly at the runway but that is not the direction in which you are traveling. Instead you are slipping slowly to one side. Use rudder (or rudder trim) to compensate until the ball is centered. The degree of side-slip depends on RPMs so you may have to change the amount of rudder you are using as you adjust power and RPMs.

You may also be slipping due to a cross-wind. That requires a different kind of adjustment.

the really hard part is when you first spawn in , and there is a crosswind, but I cant remember which way at the moment. get established in flight, then set power, then trim to it.(the power setting) don't try to land the first pass, do a go round and keep the ball centered and speed above 150 or so on the pattern and flaps(not too much, especlly with the crosswind) and gear and about 130 on final 110 flare close throttle and she will float in pretty as a picture

the really hard part is when you first spawn in , and there is a crosswind, but I cant remember which way at the moment. get established in flight, then set power, then trim to it.(the power setting) don't try to land the first pass, do a go round and keep the ball centered and speed above 150 or so on the pattern and flaps(not too much, especlly with the crosswind) and gear and about 130 on final 110 flare close throttle and she will float in pretty as a picture

If the mission has a crosswind....then that's your whole issue. Follow Andy's advice at this point.........

Hi,

I would say there is not really a crosswind at that altitude when the track starts

wind at ground 1 m/s, 105 degrees

at 2000m, 6ms, 101 degrees

When I take control over the track - my flight is stable

1) Your approach is to flat

Watch these videos -> "dive" the approach

2) Your main problem is the late use of the flaps at low speed and being in level flight

You open the flaps from 0 to 10 near the runway at a low speed and being more in a "level flight" as in a dive -> the nose is going extreme up

Ups - where is the runway ?

You are already over the runway and you open the flaps from 10 to 30 and at the same time you reduce the throttle to IDLE (1000 rpm)

-> "... my plane s acting like a rollercoaster"

Use the flaps earlier while diving

Start with 10 by 200 mph and end with 50 by 160/150 mph - some hundred feet above the ground

------------------------------------------------------------------

Something is strange

Main-Menue -> REPLAY your track

Open the Controls Indicator with RCtrl + Return

From the start on your flight is nervous - without any great inputs

When I take control over the track - my flight is stable

\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Doc\DCS World Input Controller Walk Through EN.pdf

Read about Deadzone and Curvature on page 6 and 7

Test it

Pitch, Roll, Rudder with a small deadzone +5 ?

Rudder with a Curvature of 20, 15 ?

Hi,

 

 

I would say there is not really a crosswind at that altitude when the track starts

wind at ground 1 m/s, 105 degrees

at 2000m, 6ms, 101 degrees

When I take control over the track - my flight is stable

 

 

1) Your approach is to flat

Watch these videos -> "dive" the approach

 

2) Your main problem is the late use of the flaps at low speed and being in level flight

You open the flaps from 0 to 10 near the runway at a low speed and being more in a "level flight" as in a dive -> the nose is going extreme up

Ups - where is the runway ?

You are already over the runway and you open the flaps from 10 to 30 and at the same time you reduce the throttle to IDLE (1000 rpm)

-> "... my plane s acting like a rollercoaster"

 

Use the flaps earlier while diving

Start with 10 by 200 mph and end with 50 by 160/150 mph - some hundred feet above the ground

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Something is strange

 

Main-Menue -> REPLAY your track

Open the Controls Indicator with RCtrl + Return

From the start on your flight is nervous - without any great inputs

 

When I take control over the track - my flight is stable

 

 

\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Doc\DCS World Input Controller Walk Through EN.pdf

Read about Deadzone and Curvature on page 6 and 7

 

Test it

Pitch, Roll, Rudder with a small deadzone +5 ?

 

Rudder with a Curvature of 20, 15 ?

Thanks to all that responded. Everyone has contributed with something.

Hi Blech.

Starting from bottom: I have Deadzone 5 in rudder, 3 in axis and pitch. Curve 30 in axis and pitch, 35 in rudder.

Now the most interesting, your comment about flight starting "nervous". Yes, it happens not only on this mission but in any mission that starts with the plane on air. Nervous is the word. Trying to get it under control takes me time and makes me more nervous. No idea why this happens but I'm sure its not like it it supposed to be.

At what point I am supposed to start diving the plane? I mean in this particular mission. For some reason it starts for me in a deep dive, and besides plane being nervous I need to trim like crazy and all this makes difficult to control it.

Thanks for your time and advice.

Hi,

" ... For some reason it starts for me in a deep dive, ..."

I guess you have the throttle at 0 when the mission starts

Move the throttle to 50 % before you start the mission

100 % can kill your "cold" engine

"Curve 30 in axis and pitch" roll and pitch ?

With my old Saitek X52 / TM Warthog -> 0

This means you are not able to make little movements IN FLIGHT with 0 curve while the joystick is not smooth enough round about the middle position ?

You can change all settings IN FLIGHT for testing different parameters -> ESC -> ADJUST CONTROLS

Test the flight behavior with reduced curves

The rest will come with practice : the feeling of altitude above ground vs distance to an airfield, speed, ...

Try pattern approaches too and not only direct approaches