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JF-17 Thunder Discussions


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Amazing, very excited! Five minutes of seeker time will be fun, the possibilities are going to be endless. Volume was perfect at all times. Admittedly I’m an air to air junky, but I can’t resist these toys. No one is safe!

 

Agreed, though I thought I had heard about a pre-plan coordinate attack (or similar, not sure what its called) where you didn't have to use the seeker manually. I wonder if that is still possible, as the video made it sound like you were required to find the target manually using MITL in the last stage.

 

Edit- And the fact that it has some degree of TFR will also increase the survive-ability of the missile.

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Looks great! Very excited for this product. When can I give you my money?

 

thanks!

when you play starcraft1 and enter "Show ******" ;)

kidding.

hmmm, when we are 100% sure it's ready to release. We also need to pass QA first.

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synthetic

 

thanks.

 

 

So in SEA1 mode, does the radar combine raw ground return with synthetic sea targets? I noticed in the video that the ships radar hit looked synthetic as it had a clearly defined shape and brightness compared to the rest of the radar returns.


Edited by Beamscanner
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thanks.

 

 

So in SEA1 mode, does the radar combine raw ground return with synthetic sea targets? I noticed in the video that the ships radar hit looked synthetic as it had a clearly defined shape and brightness compared to the rest of the radar returns.

 

for moving targets, synthetic.

gmti and sea1 can combine with rbm

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Well IRL I'm pretty sure IADS can engage bombs too. Probably alot easier/slower target, but with a shorter flight time. JSOW RCS should be lower than a GBU31 as its specifically designed to be "stealthy", but yes I suspect its just how DCS classifies stuff.

 

Do we have an actual real live example of SAM successfully engaging bombs & cruise missiles ?

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Actually, what kind of navigational beacon system does JF-17 utilize? TACAN, RSBN or maybe some Chinese equivalent of thereof (if there is one)?

 

TACAN

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Do we have an actual real live example of SAM successfully engaging bombs & cruise missiles ?
Cruise missiles, as they were even shot down by planes, so definitely possible with SAM.

Bombs/mortars not from SAMs as far as I know, but state-of-the-art C-RAM gun systems.

 

EDIT: the most popular Missile defense system where missiles shoot down missiles

 

and a nice video of cruise missile being shot down in a test by a US ship


Edited by shagrat

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Cruise missiles, as they were even shot down by planes, so definitely possible with SAM.

Bombs/mortars not from SAMs as far as I know, but state-of-the-art C-RAM gun systems.

 

EDIT: the most popular Missile defense system where missiles shoot down missiles

 

and a nice video of cruise missile being shot down in a test by a US ship

 

I was thinking of SAM systems presently available in DCS World and shooting down AGM-88 like if it was piece of cake.

 

The fact that newer systems designed on purpose to shoot down incoming bombs & rockets doesn’t mean that older systems can do it too.

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I was thinking of SAM systems presently available in DCS World and shooting down AGM-88 like if it was piece of cake.

 

 

 

The fact that newer systems designed on purpose to shoot down incoming bombs & rockets doesn’t mean that older systems can do it too.

In DCS the SA-15 Thor and the SA-10 (S-300) and Tunguska can track and intercept AGM-88 and cruise missiles etc. as in real life. After all it only matters if the tracking radar can "see" them. Unlike fighters HARM or Tomahawk don't evade or maneuver.

To help confusing the radar and track too many targets TALDs / decoys were invented. They saturate the radar so one or more HARM may get through.

 

EDIT and the C-RAM systems may by "newer" but are in action for a couple of years already. The SAM and SHORAD missile defenses against missiles against cruise missiles / anti ship missiles are decades old, and basically SAM systems mounted on warships. SM-6 and SM-2 missile systems with this capability are around since the early 90ies.


Edited by shagrat

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Do we have an actual real live example of SAM successfully engaging bombs & cruise missiles ?

 

Best bet on that is to look at the syrian conflict, as thats the only conflict that I can think of that has double digit sam systems in use. But I don't think there is much public info on that one way or the other.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/14/russia-claims-syria-air-defences-shot-down-majority-missiles

 

The reality of it is that RCS of the missile and response time are probably going to be the main determinants. If you can see it you can kill it kind of an argument.

 

I have the best luck in DCS when firing HARMS well within SAM range, because the flight time is really short, the defenses tend to shoot them down less. Same for Sidearms, but those are so short ranged to begin with. Using terrain masking if possible, get as close as you can pop off ARM and get out.

 

The other tactic which works depending on how SAMS are modeled on a specific server, is to shoot the HARM, have them turn the radar off, and follow it in with other bombs. The HARM will likely miss, but if the radar is off, who cares. There is a big difference between SEAD and DEAD.


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Then you need to look at the results, not what 'Russia claims' ... it turns out that the vast majority of missiles actually hit their target - this was determined by counting impact sites.

 

 

 

Best bet on that is to look at the syrian conflict, as thats the only conflict that I can think of that has double digit sam systems in use. But I don't think there is much public info on that one way or the other.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/14/russia-claims-syria-air-defences-shot-down-majority-missiles

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Makes me wonder if C-802 could be used like a TALD. Just read about USS Mason shooting the surface to ship version of these down with SM-2 and Sea Sparrow.

Soon on MP servers no air defence will be safe from harassement!


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Yeah, air defense just needs a few tweaks and attackers won't be safe from it, either. The important thing regarding the USS Mason is that decoys (And probably ECM) were used in all attacks. N/A DCS :)


Edited by GGTharos

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Yeah, air defense just needs a few tweaks and attackers won't be safe from it, either. The important thing regarding the USS Mason is that decoys (And probably ECM) were used in all attacks. N/A DCS :)
F-14B introduced TALD... F/A-18C should get decoys, as well.

I guess the critical factor is the tracking radar and if it can lock and track the incoming threat in time to defeat it. Any SAM / Ship defense should be able to blast a rocket or even a bomb out of the air. The key is to get it at the right place at the right time. ;)

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F-14B introduced TALD... F/A-18C should get decoys, as well.

I guess the critical factor is the tracking radar and if it can lock and track the incoming threat in time to defeat it. Any SAM / Ship defense should be able to blast a rocket or even a bomb out of the air. The key is to get it at the right place at the right time. ;)

 

Yeah, ground vehicle/ship should have this feature for self defence,

at least, it will be more good-looking when missiles inbound.

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Not what I'm talking about at all ... theoretically with one or two parameter changes SAMs can shoot at anything in game.

I'm talking about SAMs not sitting around like fish in a barrel, broadcasting their location etc.

Bonus point if mobile SAMs actually move to semi-random spots, preventing reuse of coordinates on mission replays.

More bonus points for TPOD/IR simulation that prevents you from so easily marking coordinates of vehicles - there are things to be considered like minimum recognizeable size, sensor resolution etc.

 

F-14B introduced TALD... F/A-18C should get decoys, as well.

I guess the critical factor is the tracking radar and if it can lock and track the incoming threat in time to defeat it. Any SAM / Ship defense should be able to blast a rocket or even a bomb out of the air. The key is to get it at the right place at the right time. ;)

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