Yet Another "Upgrade Advice" Post

Sounds quite stupid to me now doesn't it?

 

Bit share his knowledge to the forum members, for the good of the community.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Demon_

Wrong Terminology and bad communication can be the beginning of a fatal disaster.

 

...ask my wife..or any husband you know...waahhaaa

 

No, seriously, people with no to little knowledge also read this, and they should be aware that

M2 alone says nothing about the drive's capabilities, just how it looks.

M2 alone says nothing about the drive's capabilities, just how it looks.

Very true, I just didn't intend to push him or others too far when he didn't know yet that both HDDs and SSDs can be SATA3. It can really be confusing at first all this computer stuff.

What is the problem Bit? It's normal. :D

I'm not sure why you're pushing the price argument against a M2 drive versus a normal SSD. The prices for a Samsung 860 M2 SSD and a normal Samsung 860 SSD is the same right now (except if for you 10 bucks is really a price difference). You seem to be a bit stuck in the past considering M2 SSDs vs normal SSDs prices.

 

It's not quite obvious what you mean by SATA3, both HDDs and SSDs can be SATA3, this is the name of the interface. You don't compare prices of an SATA3 HDD against a SATA3 or even M2 SSD do you?

The only argument against a M2 drive in the last months and years was the price but it has changed a lot, they cost about the same right now. Sure the difference or advantage of the M2 drive isn't that big over a normal SSD for DCS but look at it from the other side: why wouldn't he get the newer device if they cost the same?

 

Sounds quite stupid to me now doesn't it?

 

1.)The topic was SSD's.. because nobody's recommending an HDD for DCS. Context helps. Along with the youtube video linked comparing loading times between an NVME drive, and a sata III SSD.

 

2.) I never referred to anything as an "m2 drive". I was more specific. The youtube video linked the thumbnail shows "M.2 vs SSD" but if you actually look at the title it says M.2 NVME drive vs SSD Loading times. If you look up the devices used, one is NVME and the other is a sata III SSD.

 

There is a price difference between NVME and Sata III SSD's, albeit it's less so than it was due to decreasing prices on the latest NVME drives. M2 can be nvme or sata III. Sorry that you seem to be confused. You will note I specified NVME vs sata III. I felt pretty clear about what I was referring to. There is no advantage for an m2 sata III ssd over a 2.5" sata III ssd performance wise they will be limited to the same speed even for file transfers, the only function is saving space and cable management. And there is pretty much no real advantage to using NVME over sata III for gaming, though it'll transfer large files with a trail of dust behind it provided, you're transferring to another NVME drive. But now I'm just repeating myself. I hope I've satisfied your misunderstanding of my post. Kind of feels like you were nitpicking at straws that weren't even there.

 

Like bitmaster said..m2 refers to a form factor i.e. size and shape and connection type, not whether it's NVME or Sata III. Doesn't matter if the sata III ssd is m2 or 2.5", as they're different versions of the same thing 6.0Gb/s is still 6.0Gb/s and yes..likely priced similarly. NVME on the other hand does come with a higher price. Not one that really bothers me though however.. although someone on a strict budget may be more concerned about it.

 

"Do I *NEED* an NVME drive for DCS World?" "No, but you probably want at least a sata III SSD."

 

Very true, I just didn't intend to push him or others too far when he didn't know yet that both HDDs and SSDs can be SATA3. It can really be confusing at first all this computer stuff.

 

I'm sorry? Who doesn't know what here?

 

Please tell me again how stuck in the past I am when the system in my sig contains an NVME drive, sata III SSD's and a sata III HDD. I think you're stuck on a misunderstanding of the m2 form factor.

 

Sata III

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820250090&Description=m2%20sata%20III&cm_re=m2_sata_III-_-20-250-090-_-Product

 

NVME drive

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147741&Description=970%20evo%20plus&cm_re=970_evo_plus-_-20-147-741-_-Product

 

Man..look at that near $40 price difference for the same amount of space at the smallest capacity, because one shares a pci-e lane with other sata devices, where the other can use up to 4 pci-e lanes for redonkulous transfer rates, that unfortunately don't seem to really help with loading times in gaming.. and they both fit into the same slot!

Edited February 22, 2019 by Headwarp

The topic was SSD's.. because nobody's recommending an HDD for DCS. Context helps.

Exactly, and the context was it which made me think what you mean by SATA3 storages because of this in your previous post #17:

"I agree on the price point.. 970 Evo Plus can be had for $127USD for 500GB. Can't say I feel bad about that, even if I can get a 500GB sata III for like $70 or sometimes even less." $70 dollars is a bit low for a 500GB SATA3 SSD still but perfectly fine for a decent HDD SATA3 storage. Not saying you can't get one at this price but its still generally higher and more likely you meant a HDD SATA3. If you would have said you mean for 70$ on a sale that's a different story, but you haven't.

M2 can be nvme or sata III. Sorry that you seem to be confused.

No, SATA3 can be SSDs and HDDs, not M2 can be NVMe or SATA3 (storage). M2 can be AHCI or NVMe. You could've said "M2 cards can use the AHCI protocol which SATA3 coincidentally also uses". "Sorry that you seem to be confused."

But now I'm just repeating myself. I hope I've satisfied your misunderstanding of my post.

Arrogance? Maybe articulate yourself properly so people can't "misunderstand" you in the first place?

Like bitmaster said..m2 refers to a form factor, not whether it's NVME or Sata III. I never referred to anything as an "m2 drive". I was more specific.

M2 are the cards which get installed directly on your board while a SATA3 drive you connect with a SATA3 cable and is not installed on the motherboard directly through a PCIe slot. You setup the dialectic of NVMe versus SATA3 in your posts which doesn't exclude HDDs from the equation since they can run on SATA3 too and with the price point you mentioned for a 500GB storage it was even more likely you mean a HDD.
Edited February 22, 2019 by Der Hirte

Exactly, and the context was it which made me think what you mean by SATA3 storages because of this in your previous post #17:

"I agree on the price point.. 970 Evo Plus can be had for $127USD for 500GB. Can't say I feel bad about that, even if I can get a 500GB sata III for like $70 or sometimes even less." $70 dollars is a bit low for a 500GB SATA3 SSD still but perfectly fine for a decent HDD SATA3 storage. Not saying you can't get one at this price but its still generally higher and more likely you meant a HDD SATA3. If you would have said you mean for 70$ on a sale that's a different story, but you haven't.

 

No, SATA3 can be SSDs and HDDs, not M2 can be NVMe or SATA3 (storage). M2 can be AHCI or NVMe. You could've said "M2 cards can use the AHCI protocol which SATA3 coincidentally also uses". "Sorry that you seem to be confused." Arrogance? Maybe articulate yourself properly so people can't "misunderstand" you in the first place?

M2 are the cards which get installed directly on your board while a SATA3 drive you connect with a SATA3 cable and is not installed on the motherboard directly through a PCIe slot. You setup the dialectic of NVMe versus SATA3 in your posts which doesn't exclude HDDs from the equation since they can run on SATA3 too and with the price point you mentioned for a 500GB storage it was even more likely you mean a HDD.

 

GO click the links at the bottom of my previous post, and look at the m2 form factor SATA III drive, and proceed to remove foot from mouth please. You are confused. Nobody's talking about HDD's but you, and the price discussion was related to NVME vs Sata III SSD's. Advice is still the same whether the sata III drive is m2 form factor or 2.5" either is good enough for dcs and you don't really need an NVME drive. While you'd like me to be wrong, I'm not. And before you call me arrogant again, if you're going to tell me I'm wrong in the future, please make sure you're right.

 

Context helps..like try reading the posts prior, which my response was directed at where the discussion was SSD.. and aluminum donkey was talking about NVME drives vs sata III solid state drives, in a thread where it was already recommended to the OP he wants at least an SSD by bitmaster, which has been a general consensus of this community for well over a year now and in the recommended hardware for DCS 2.5. With ALL of that information the guys who responded to your response to myself, knew what I was talking about. Not a big deal, minor hang up on your part. Sorry if I didn't take too well to having to explain myself to you, being told what I meant, and also where I seem to be stuck, or what I do or don't know. But I know what I'm talking about in this instance. And I didn't just randomly come in and start talking about storage without context from the previous pages of the thread.

 

Sata III

 

NVME

 

Both m2 2280 formfactor. They fit into the same slot. No extra connections necessary. NVME, m2, and 2.5" drives are all forms of solid state drive. Yep. I was comparing ssd's. I even own some. Personally, if I WAS going to use an m2 slot on my board though? It'd be an NVME drive. $127 for 500GB isn't all that bad vs the $70 i'd pay for a 500GB sata IIII ssd. Others might be more conservative. I've seen a hewlett packard 2.5" 500GB sata III ssd get as low as $50 USD. It's a good deal. Regarding SSD's, frankly it's hard to go wrong, but you can save a few bucks here and there if you look for sales and watch prices, which over all have lowered recently.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Headwarp

Oh boy ... let's examine this:

 

GO click the links at the bottom of my previous post, and look at the m2 form factor SATA III drive, and proceed to remove foot from mouth please. You are confused.

No I am not, it seems you didn't read my previous post or lack the capacity to understand what I wrote. You don't even need to start that I did implicate that M2 cards can't use the AHCI protocol, which SATA3 interface uses, but I pointed out you didn't articulate yourself properly and not precisely and thus inviting people to misunderstand you.

Nobody's talking about HDD's but you...

Because you don't express yourself precise enough. Both HDDs and SSDs can be SATA3, like I said, you had setup the dialectic with SATA3, not me.

Advice is still the same ...

It's not about the advice in your intention, but about the fact that your advice wasn't precise enough and the best evidence is that I thought you were talking about HDDs, especially after naming such a low price.

While you'd like me to be wrong, I'm not. And before you call me arrogant again, if you're going to tell me I'm wrong in the future, please make sure you're right.

I am right with what I say. You tried to push it off as me being unable to understand you when in reality you are unable to express the thoughts you have in your head into the real world to get your intention across properly.

People can't look into your head through the internet when you write on your keyboard or do you actually believe that human communication works correctly this way? Looking into other peoples heads?:lol:

Both m2 2280 formfactor. They fit into the same slot. No extra connections necessary. NVME, m2, and 2.5" drives are all forms of solid state drive. Yep. I was comparing ssd's.

It's not about you having the comparison wrong in your head but you didn't express yourself precise enough so people can't "misunderstand" you in the first place mate. What you have in your head you gotta translate properly into the real world through your words for other people atleast it's still this way in 2019. SATA3 can be both SSDs and HDDs. I hope it's clear when I have now repeated this several times, it came across.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Der Hirte

Oh boy ... let's examine this:

 

No I am not, it seems you didn't read my previous post or lack the capacity to understand what I wrote. You don't even need to start that I did implicate that M2 cards can't use the AHCI protocol, which SATA3 interface uses, but I pointed out you didn't articulate yourself properly and not precisely and thus inviting people to misunderstand you.

Because you don't express yourself precise enough. Both HDDs and SSDs can be SATA3, like I said, you had setup the dialectic with SATA3, not me.

 

It's not about the advice in your intention, but about the fact that your advice wasn't precise enough and the best evidence is that I thought you were talking about HDDs, especially after naming such a low price.

 

I am right with what I say. You tried to push it off as me being unable to understand you when in reality you are unable to express the thoughts you have in your head into the real world to get your intention across properly.

People can't look into your head through the internet when you write on your keyboard or do you actually believe that human communication works correctly this way? Looking into other peoples heads?:lol:

 

It's not about you having the comparison wrong in your head but you didn't express yourself precise enough so people can't "misunderstand" you in the first place mate. What you have in your head you gotta translate properly into the real world through your words for other people atleast it's still this way in 2019. SATA3 can be both SSDs and HDDs. I hope it's clear when I have now repeated this several times, it came across.

 

You misunderstood something, taken out of context because apparently tying multiple posts from different people on a subject is difficult for you, I have more than clarified what I meant and you are STILL FRICKING arguing. Let me tell you how much I care whether or not you understand me at this point. Doesn't seem like anybody else struggled with it. What's that say about you? And you want to continue to insult my comprehension? You have a complex sir.

 

M2 are the cards which get installed directly on your board while a SATA3 drive you connect with a SATA3 cable and is not installed on the motherboard directly through a PCIe slot.

 

Please show me where you plug in the sata cable for that sata III m2 drive i've both linked and provided a screen snip of, with your superior understanding of human expression and technical knowledge.

 

Have a good day. I'm done with this.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Headwarp

...

I see, I did a homerun with post #33. Over and out.

I see, I did a homerun with post #33. Over and out.

 

nar·cis·sistDictionary result for narcissist

/ˈnärsəsəst/Submit

noun

a person who has an excessive interest in or admiration of themselves.

"narcissists who think the world revolves around them"

...

Ah personal attacks and a defame attempt, see #35.

Ah personal attacks and a defame attempt, see #35.

 

*Edit* My last thought on the topic between myself and Der Hirte - Man, seriously, I'll be over this in about 30 seconds. I don't wish hard feelings. At the same time the misunderstanding seems to be on your part. Your inability to understand the context of my post in regards of what I was responding to and what was being compared does not equate to inability on my part.

 

You could have simply asked me to clarify myself to you, and I'd have been a lot nicer about doing so. "You seem stuck in the past", to you maybe. The next post was from someone who seemed to understand what I meant. "he doesn't know the difference between an HDD or SSD" WHo me? Are you sure you don't have a little issue expressing yourself there?

 

You focused on the term m2 throughout the rest of your response, a term I did not use once in what I typed. I specified NVME and Sata III. I'm not sure if m2 came from the youtube thumbnail or what, but m2 is simply a form factor, a connection type size and shape. I don't think it's that hard to see, based on the post I was responding to, and based on the post he was responding to, and based on the content of the youtube video that I was talking about the difference between NVME and Sata III drives, both of which are available in m2 form factor, both of which I have at least one. I have expressed that in multiple ways for you, and you seem to be demanding more communication that is totally unnecessary while continuing to tell me what I meant, rather than accept that YOU misunderstood what I meant. You proceeded to then to give me the quote above, which further indicates a problem of distinguishing M2 from NVME for you, because both NVME and SATA III are available in m2 form factor.

 

Now if the mods feel the need to ban me, or delete my posts for what I've said to you today, I accept that. But your inability to understand that I was referring to solid state drive types is not my problem, and prior to your post, where you made presumptuous statements about myself, and others tried to clarify it for you already.

 

"M2 are the cards which get installed directly on your board while a SATA3 drive you connect with a SATA3 cable and is not installed on the motherboard directly through a PCIe slot." <-- this quote from you seems to show a misunderstanding of the fact that NVME and Sata III ssd's are available in m2 form factor. In the past, and still in use today widely, 2.5" was the standard for sata III SSDs, required connection to your PSU, and had a "sata connection." NVME drives didn't have dedicated slots on the board either at one point, you had to use an expansion card and use a pci-e slot.

 

Now, Both are available in m2 form factor. and when it comes to sata III SSD's m2 or 2.5" they will likely produce about the same results in stress testing. Both are sufficient for DCS World. NVME scores SO much higher in stress testing, for added cost, and not much practical sense in gaming. If that isn't enough for it to make sense to you, I'm sorry I can't help you.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Headwarp

you guys are hilarious.

I'm going to put this quote in my sig thanks for the laugh. Could I list your name beside it?

 

"M2 are the cards which get installed directly on your board while a SATA3 drive you connect with a SATA3 cable and is not installed on the motherboard directly through a PCIe slot."

Go ahead but don't forget to put the whole context in it so people realize you can't articulate yourself like an adult. Only the whole story is the truth. Didn't you say "Context helps"? You did. You could've just admitted but now you give off these butthurt vibes.

Go ahead but don't forget to put the whole context in it so people realize you can't articulate yourself like an adult. Only the whole story is the truth. Didn't you say "Context helps"? You did. You could've just admitted but now you give off these butthurt vibes.

 

I'm not butt hurt at all.. I've explained it by editing my last post.. and that's it. I can't help you understand it anymore from there. But you do seem to be missing context, and you were a bit presumptuous and continue to be by telling me I need to express myself further when I've gone out of my way just to make sure we're crystal clear on what was meant.

 

Then WITH that very quote i'm asking for permission for, I'm still waiting for you to show me where you plug the sata cable into an m2 2280 sata III solid state drive.

 

I admit.. that I was comparing ssd's in my initial post and that your comprehension level struggled with it. I'm sorry man. Just ask me next time.. no need to take me to grade school on a topic I'm already experienced with and tell me where I am what I know who i am and anything else you might have derrived based on a forum post that really isn't all that confusing taken in context of the thread, but I'd be happy to break it down to you like I would a 5 year old without much complaint if you ask nicely.

 

But you're going to tell me what I meant rather than ask what I meant? You're going to then change the argument once answered to m2 and sata III are different when both can be found in the same device, that smells to me of someone who doesn't like to admit when they're wrong. Like pc building knowledge is some kind of competition. But you can stand corrected, and not have the expectation that I'm to cater to your idea that I need to respond to a post any differently just because you don't get it. Frankly, this is embarrassing, not because you've "proven me wrong", because I wasn't wrong. But because I'm still trying to get us on the same page when it seems to me like you're more concerned with having hit a homerun and winning an argument than checking your facts. The overall answer to your initial response to my post is "YES, i was talking about ssd's, and the topic was NVME VS sata III ssd speeds and the worth of the added cost for NVME in gaming"

 

Read the thread..not just the responses imo. The conversation I was responding to was discussing the benefit of NVME vs SATA III solid state drives, and I think you got stuck somewhere. Form factor had nothing to do with it, and I don't recommend an HDD personally for anything other than cheap terabytes for storage these days. I'll confess you have no reason to know that about me, and I'm obviously more than happy to clarify, if mayhaps I wasn't all that pleased with accusatory statements, and a rant about the m2 form factor, when the terms I used were "sata III and NVME", being two different types of solid state drive that both run on the m2 form factor. Nitpicking a bit methinks. How is it my problem again that your take from my talk of NVME and SATA III, turned into m2?

Edited February 22, 2019 by Headwarp

I'm not butt hurt at all..

"I'm butthurt but don't admit it because he exposed me so I try to make him seem faulty" is all I read. Get over it.

"I'm butthurt but don't admit it because he exposed me so I try to make him seem faulty" is all I read. Get over it.

 

Further demonstrating reading comprehension is your strong suit, and still being a douche. Just sayin. What have you exposed of me? That I can back up statements with fact? I even provided you pictures and videos. For easy learning. Here's what I can admit.. continuing to respond to you, does in fact make me look bad. But I can also admit when I'm wrong, and this isn't one of those times.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Headwarp

Guys,

 

CALM DOWN

 

No reason to try to insult anyone, this is DCS Forum and not a battlefield.

 

Dont post in anger or it will the the one post you regret forever, just saying :music_whistling:

Guys,

 

CALM DOWN

 

No reason to try to insult anyone, this is DCS Forum and not a battlefield.

 

Dont post in anger or it will the the one post you regret forever, just saying :music_whistling:

 

The anger was short lived, it's a running joke at this point. Hippy love Bit...i mean peacemaster. :drunk: I'm letting it rest now.

Peace man :)

 

Let's get funny :)

... CALM DOWN ...

lmao I never was not calmed down, what for? I'm the calmest it can get.

lmao I never was not calmed down, what for? I'm the calmest it can get.

 

you don't seem to get it, but that's ok with me.

 

take it easy

And I just wanted to know about a graphics card. :-)

And I just wanted to know about a graphics card. :-)

Post #14 ^^ Take the RX 580, it's very good for the price especially if you manage to get it on sale. A CPU upgrade like suggested by someone else before would help a lot, too. It's about equal in terms of CPU upgrade versus GPU upgrade.