Super 530

Ah ok, all those figures are in nm then, so not quite as bad as first described. I dunno why I thought it was km...still, 10nm is not amazing. I'll test a high vs high altitude engagement when I get a chance.

 

Agreed that the Su and MiG are better in close, weapons wise at least, but I have had far more luck with Magics than 530s, though I still need more practice.

 

I dunno though, a strong height differential should give your missiles a good kinematic advantage, though perhaps newer missiles get more benefit with coast/dive trajectories (does the AMRAAM do this in DCS? It should. I havnt got the F15.) the 530 just dives straight towards the target.

Yes, more practice ;).

Your missile love this free energy form altitude, the problem is your radar tracking and your tracking/SA. I can assure you that above 15kft you have a very good range compared to other fox1, a lot more that 10nm.

Use your DLZ( that is more a dynamic PK zone than dynamic launch zone ), in an head one scenario as soon as you are within the "max range" zone your missile have enough energy to hit the target if it does not maneuver too much.

Edit : If you don't believe me on the 18+nm range, I can show you a video/track where I shoot a maneuvering target at that range ;)

Yes, more practice ;).

 

Your missile love this free energy form altitude, the problem is your radar tracking and your tracking/SA. I can assure you that above 15kft you have a very good range compared to other fox1, a lot more that 10nm.

 

Use your DLZ( that is more a dynamic PK zone than dynamic launch zone ), in an head one scenario as soon as you are within the "max range" zone your missile have enough energy to hit the target if it does not maneuver too much.

 

Edit : If you don't believe me on the 18+nm range, I can show you a video/track where I shoot a maneuvering target at that range ;)

Question: Are you saying that you can take the shot before the "double rings"/"TIR" HUD notification?

Because so far I always wait and shoot on that cue. You can take my previous shot descriptions as firing at that mark.

Question: Are you saying that you can take the shot before the "double rings"/"TIR" HUD notification?

 

Because so far I always wait and shoot on that cue. You can take my previous shot descriptions as firing at that mark.

Yes, RMax is indicated on the scale on the right of the HUD. "TIR" is the no-escape-zone.

Yes, RMax is indicated on the scale on the right of the HUD. "TIR" is the no-escape-zone.

The mirage DLZ is about PK, not aerodynamic range, so TIR is max PK, "max range" is good enough PK.

And yes you can shoot when the TIR is not displayed.

That might go quite far to explaining why I thought the missile had such a short range! All those 8-10nm shots have been at the "max Pk" mark where you get he TIR indication, I didnt realise this was already within the DLZ. That was definitely skewing my opinions! This whole time...

Nice to hear that this is cleared out. Tell us how you do now :).

That might go quite far to explaining why I thought the missile had such a short range! All those 8-10nm shots have been at the "max Pk" mark where you get he TIR indication, I didnt realise this was already within the DLZ. That was definitely skewing my opinions! This whole time...

Actually shooting at max Pk range is quite correct most of the time. You can go over that but it's not recommended unless the target is closing with you quite rapidly.

Actually shooting at max Pk range is quite correct most of the time. You can go over that but it's not recommended unless the target is closing with you quite rapidly.

Agreed, thats not what I thought I was doing though!

I still think the M2000 loses lock too easily.

According to Zeus's post on upcoming RDI changes, the target lost memory function is not implemented yet. I do, however, put the corresponding switch in memory mode, and also score the vast majority of my kills in BVR with 530D's.

Hello folks,

 

As the title says, here I am going to post about the changes that are being made to the RDI radar. My goal is to reach 80% fidelity since 100% is not realistic for obvious reasons.

 

Okay the upcoming changes are:

 

 

• Radar antenna azimuth sector search (used when the selected search azimuth is less than 60º). (enabled)
  
• Radar antenna elevation. (enabled)
  
• Radar antenna stabilization (both roll and pitch). Requires radar antenna elevation. (enabled)
  
• Radar PRF selection.
  
• Target lock limitations. Requires radar PRF selection.
  
• IFF interrogation. Requires radar PRF selection. (enabled)
  
• Super 530D launch limitations. Requires target lock limitations.
  
• Autolock. Requires target lock limitations.
  
• Auto STT. Requires target lock limitations.
  
• Doppler filtering.
  
• Target Lost Memory.
  
• NCTR. Requires PRF selection.
  
• Radar screen realignment and upgrade. Includes symbology and TDC.
  
• Warm-up period. (enabled) Now you have to warm the radar for 2 minutes if you use the Pre Heat option. 3 if you don't.
  
• Built-in test.
  

 

Unfortunately the A/G modes are not possible at this time since they require A/G radar support. They will be incorporated when the A/G radar support becomes available.

The mirage DLZ is about PK, not aerodynamic range, so TIR is max PK, "max range" is good enough PK.

 

And yes you can shoot when the TIR is not displayed.

mind. blown. :shocking:

... for almost a year I've been waiting to reach the "TIR" zone to shoot !

mind. blown. :shocking:

 

... for almost a year I've been waiting to reach the "TIR" zone to shoot !

XD...... You always learn something ;).

mind. blown. :shocking:

 

... for almost a year I've been waiting to reach the "TIR" zone to shoot !

Me too :cry:...

Well sure u can fire from Max range, but remember we still got only 2 missiles...

Well sure u can fire from Max range, but remember we still got only 2 missiles...

Yes, most of the time you will need 2-3 missiles to kill 1 4th gen fighter, it's how it works ;).

530 is a deadly missile (the most deadly SARH in DCS IMO), no need to wait for the TIR. Sometimes I launch it around 30-40 sec countdown and it still hit.

530 is a deadly missile (the most deadly SARH in DCS IMO), no need to wait for the TIR. Sometimes I launch it around 30-40 sec countdown and it still hit.

What is it that makes it more deadly than an Alamo or Sparrow?

***

To update the OP a bit - did some trials, and at 30kft, the missile can hit an AWACS at around 18-20nm - and this was a flanking attack, would be greater in a head-on shot.

Im glad Im not the only who didnt know you dont have to wait for the "TIR" cue!

***

I see the doppler-reject switch is also on the RDI update list, that would be very interesting...

What is it that makes it more deadly than an Alamo or Sparrow?

The guidance system looks a bit more ECM and CM robust and the missile got a better top speed. It could also be that the mirage pilots are better than the F-15/Su-27 pilots :D. I find the differences to be marginal...

I see the doppler-reject switch is also on the RDI update list, that would be very interesting...

You can already change you Doppler filtering with the PRF setting, in BFR you have no Doppler filter... note that you can't shoot a 530D in that mode.

I don't use other PRF than HFR, I don't find them useful.

530 is a deadly missile (the most deadly SARH in DCS IMO), no need to wait for the TIR. Sometimes I launch it around 30-40 sec countdown and it still hit.

Speed and optimal range.

R-27ER > 530D > AIM-7 > R-27R.

With head on engagements the difference between the first two reaching the target compared to the later two is huge. When you're faced with a Flanker that is only armed with R-27R you should win everytime in a straight up head on BVR engagement. Not to mention how easy it is to outmanouvere any SARH missile head on in the M2K which is next to impossible with the Flanker without breaking your wings.

Speed and optimal range.

R-27ER > 530D > AIM-7 > R-27R.

With head on engagements the difference between the first two reaching the target compared to the later two is huge. When you're faced with a Flanker that is only armed with R-27R you should win everytime in a straight up head on BVR engagement. Not to mention how easy it is to outmanouvere any SARH missile head on in the M2K which is next to impossible with the Flanker without breaking your wings.

If you break your wings it means you have too much fuel. Going to battle with full fuel in the Flanker isn't a good idea, and you can't just drop it like you would with drop tanks in F-15.

I think to optimal fuel to maneuver with Flanker without breaking anything is around the fuel listed in "normal weight" = 5270 kg

If you break your wings it means you have too much fuel. Going to battle with full fuel in the Flanker isn't a good idea, and you can't just drop it like you would with drop tanks in F-15.

 

I think to optimal fuel to maneuver with Flanker without breaking anything is around the fuel listed in "normal weight" = 5270 kg

Breaking wings that is with 1 tonne of fuel. ;)

To get anywhere near the instant pitch and roll of the M2K requires the limiter switch (not ASC switch), this puts you on the edge of wing breaking even with 1 tonne. But even so doing this evasion technique is still nowhere near as easy or fluid as in the M2K or F-15 for that matter as the Flanker has a lot more feeling of shifting weight. Kudos to YoYo I guess, that's why he is the FM man.

The M2000C is an interceptor, not a air superiority fighter.

If you want to spam missiles from 20 miles away, grab a f-15 with Aim120's.

 

Or learn to use the mirages strengths to get close enough to your enemy so you can use your weapons effectively. If you try and fly her using F-15 tactics, it will end bad.

well its technically a Fighter. C after 2000 stands for Chassuer, which translates literately to fighter. At design requirements, and very early design phase it was striker first, interceptor second, then it changed to interception first, Strikers second, eventually just to a fighter, with secondary strike capabilities with the actual production within its service life. Don't let this confuse as you could say its semantics to an extent. F16 was not intially envsioned as a Multirole strike fighter either, but as a Close in a2a Dog fighter at its initial design phase, and to an extent this was still true with the A models.

and really you cant compare to an F15 with Aim120's as those came much later. within the same time period that M2000C's were coming into service, the F15C was still using Aim7's back then. However in some ways the Mirage is more of a smaller light fighter like the F16. The French initially planned to have a larger more advanced AS like fighter; the Mirage 4000 but that was cancelled.

in the Gulf war M2000C's flew Escort missions for U2 spy aircraft, and during Bosnian and Serbian wars flew Combat air patrols. Not simply Scramble. takeoff, , fly and Shoot at bomber formation "Interceptor" aircraft. In more recent years the M2000C has been used as a PGM bomb truck for M2000D's designating targets in some small French involved conflicts within the African continent.

I think to a degree its semantics, because the F15 or F16 can also be used ( and have been) in a "interception" role too against bombers or strikers, even if they are not designed or specifically dedicated as interceptors. After all thats exactly when they practice scramble drills, or when F15s are sent to "intercept" a Russian bomber or patrol aircraft over the arctic, that get too close to Alaska or something.

If you break your wings it means you have too much fuel. Going to battle with full fuel in the Flanker isn't a good idea, and you can't just drop it like you would with drop tanks in F-15.

 

I think to optimal fuel to maneuver with Flanker without breaking anything is around the fuel listed in "normal weight" = 5270 kg

Just keep the burners on after takeoff until you've got through the first tank

What is it that makes it more deadly than an Alamo or Sparrow?

 

***

To update the OP a bit - did some trials, and at 30kft, the missile can hit an AWACS at around 18-20nm - and this was a flanking attack, would be greater in a head-on shot.

 

Im glad Im not the only who didnt know you dont have to wait for the "TIR" cue!

 

***

I see the doppler-reject switch is also on the RDI update list, that would be very interesting...

Although difference are minimal im still a bigger aim7M fan. 530D's are great at high altitdes but overall they Bleed speed faster after the rocket propellant ends, I find the Aim7M's retain thier energy better after such occurrence, even if during the initial firing they aren't as fast.

Again relatively subtle differences 530D is not like some sort of clear generation leap winner over the sparrow.

Breaking wings that is with 1 tonne of fuel. ;)

To get anywhere near the instant pitch and roll of the M2K requires the limiter switch (not ASC switch), this puts you on the edge of wing breaking even with 1 tonne. But even so doing this evasion technique is still nowhere near as easy or fluid as in the M2K or F-15 for that matter as the Flanker has a lot more feeling of shifting weight. Kudos to YoYo I guess, that's why he is the FM man.

The thing to remember is that the Su 27 empty weight is the Mirage 2000 maximum take off weight.

You can't expect to match Mirage 2000 pitch or roll rate with Su 27 because of weight and inertia.

From real life flight manual Su 27 SK maximum roll rate is 180 degrees/ second.

Mirage 2000 is 270 degrees/ seconds.

But Flanker has other strengths...

Although difference are minimal im still a bigger aim7M fan. 530D's are great at high altitdes but overall they Bleed speed faster after the rocket propellant ends, I find the Aim7M's retain thier energy better after such occurrence, even if during the initial firing they aren't as fast.

 

Again relatively subtle differences 530D is not like some sort of clear generation leap winner over the sparrow.

Long range shots are not an issue against aggressive pilots that know what they're doing, it's the 5nm shots that do the damage and in that regime 530D is 2nd best only to an ER, the Sparrow and Alamo-A are so slow at this range in comparison they are totally outclassed.