Why am I finding it so hard to fly the F5E? - Page 4 - ED Forums


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Old 01-13-2019, 06:11 PM   #31
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The F5 module exhibits typical swept winged aerodynamics, and rolls fine with rudder at medium to high alpha. Below around 200 knots or so, in the landing configuration, it loses much of it's directional stability and dynamic response. The nose wanders excessively both in pitch and yaw, and inputs are slow to change the trajectory of the aircraft if that make sense. This wasn't the case in the real aircraft, which was responsive in yaw and roll, with a heavy nose/slower pitch response in both the E and F models. Many DCS modules exhibit this type of divergent directional stability- the P51D module is particularly bad.

I haven't flown a P51, but a friend owns one, and I've talked to several USN TPS grads that got to evaluate one (the didn't care for the handling) and get the feeling that developers read a few lines in a pilot report somewhere, and over do the aircraft behavior as a result.

All of that said, I'll do another test, looking at the rudder controller and axis tuning. As always, individual controller setups can produce differing results.

Last edited by Victory205; 01-13-2019 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 01-14-2019, 02:08 AM   #32
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mmmm maybe I got used to it, but I do not think that the F5 is that hard to control under 200 knots. Maybe your joystick sensitivity is too high?
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:39 PM   #33
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It’s not the senstivity, I’m used to that, but the response to the controls. A yaw input for example, changes the nose position laterally, but the trajectory of the aircraft doesn’t change commensurately.

I don’t get a chance to fly often, but will have a detailed look when I can. The P51 was quite bad, but I haven’t flown it since the recent update.
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Old 01-16-2019, 05:13 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Victory205 View Post
I’ve got a little time in the F5F, and find that the DCS example exhibits terrible directional stability below about 200 knots. I’m amazed that any lay person can land the thing.
I love the thing on approach at 150kt, the nose is in a perfect dutch roll! Bit less pronounced at 160kt, but still there, oh what fun!
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:19 AM   #35
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I think you're referring to adverse yaw. Make coordinated turns!

As for approach - she needs lots of trim as she slows. Be sure flaps are set to AUTO.
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Old 01-16-2019, 10:34 AM   #36
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IMO DCS tends to have a slight lack of heaviness to the responses, I think it might be the air loads modelling.
Someone tested the Huey FM at length for Helisimmer.com, and pointed out a required pedal input in cruise, which shouldn't be required (which makes sense ).
I personally find the Spitfire to be the worst offender for that in the sim so far, the pitch, due to the aircraft's design (immense elevator surface), is massively sensitive (which is true of the IRL aircraft too, as NACA pointed out, the stick forces were below the IIRC 6lbs/G they recommended), and there's nothing to really find the feel in flight (no ffb, nothing to reduce the amount of input of the pilot depending on speed), so it's quite possible to go soaring past max Cl and into an accelerated stall with 1/3 (!!!) of stick travel.

The 109, AFAIK, has a feature (in-sim) that changes the deflection rates and limits depending on your speed. For instance it is very hard to pull up from a high speed dive, and it lightens back up when you slow down.

That may explain why the F-5 feels squirelly for you at low speed, even if personally I don't feel it's particularly unstable.
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Old 01-16-2019, 11:04 AM   #37
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Trimming in a sim like DCS is actually harder than flying a real plane which does not have a fly by wire system, there is no feedback on the controls in DCS apart from the spring pressure in the controller, more "analogue" planes like the F5 which are not naturally that stable are obviously going to be more of a challenge, the A10C, for instance, has a straight wing and wing dihedral which aids roll axis stability. To summarize, pilots are trained to apply stick pressure and throttle for the required profile, (straight and level, climbing etc.) and then to trim out the stick pressure, you can still do this with just joystick spring pressure, you soon get the hang of automatically applying trim for climbing or straight and level flight etc, I was taught PAT when learning to fly, (Power, Attitude, Trim) if you are using a joystick hat for trimming, apply separate nudges on the trim and count how many you need to achieve the required profile after transitioning from a climb or descent (or any change from one profile to another) and remember Power, Attitude, Trim in that order when transitioning.
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:00 PM   #38
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Most of this comes down to short controls and no feedback. Has a lot less to do with the modeling in the sim as it is just the reality that it IS a sim and the controls and environment you're operating with are nkt even remotely like the real thing.
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