*** AI J-35 Draken AI coming to DCS World!! *** - Page 5 - ED Forums


Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-07-2017, 10:30 AM   #41
AdurianJ's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 141


For those who can read Swedish.
A technician Göran Hawée describes the Hawée 1&2 mods that where applied to the draken in the 80's.

Hawée 1:
It was a modification of the radar to make it much less ECM resistant and as a byproduct the radar became much better at low altitude.
The Radar also became more user friendly to operate.

Hawée 2:
As a result of the new low altitude performance the AIM26B missile was now setting the limit for low altitude engagements as it's proximity fuze had a tendency to detonate below 500m.

So the missile was modified with a new proximity fuze and the Draken got a limited HOTAS setup where you could arm missiles and switch between weapons more easilly.
The Radar was also modified to be better at locking up targets at low altitude.
AdurianJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 05:56 PM   #42
Junior Member
oreste's Avatar
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Alessandria Italia
Posts: 20

Great plane,is my dream,see this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jqiDEcfSnXs
oreste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 06:29 PM   #43
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 252

A ver wellcome addition, Saab fighters allways stood as one of a kind, pretty unique each one. Maybe we'll see all of them someday, and a pair more of them as flyable
Sarraceno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 01:36 PM   #44
Senior Member
Knock-Knock's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,297

Just helping pushing sales

- Jack of many DCS modules, master of none.
- Personal wishlist: A-7E Corsair II, F-35 Draken, F-104 Starfighter, Panavia Tornado IDS.

| MSI Z87-G45 Gaming | i5-4670K @ 4.3Ghz | 16Gb DDR3 1600 | Asus GTX 1070 Strix OC | Samsung 850 Evo 250 & 500Gb | 40" Sony FullHD | Oculus Rift CV1 | Thrustmaster Warthog Stick (19.5cm extension) & Throttle | MFG Crosswind | Windows 7-64 |
Knock-Knock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2017, 04:14 AM   #45
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 14

Would LOVE to see this as a full module some day soon!
Intel i5-3570K @ 4.6ghz (Noctua D14)
Asus P8Z77-V LK Mobo
Adata 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3
MSI Geforce GTX 970 (x2) SLI
Windows 10
DX 12.0
jfxp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2017, 05:40 AM   #46
asla36's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: In a little country in the Baltic (Eesti!).
Posts: 520

Originally Posted by jfxp View Post
Would LOVE to see this as a full module some day soon!
Would be a dream!

Also a Baltic Sea map would be awesome, and with Su-15/22 and JA-37 modules it would be almost feature complete with aircraft (since we already have the strike Viggen, MiG-21bis, and are going to get the MiG-19p)!

Though these are just dreams and are most likely never going to get realized, I just wanted to spill out some of my stupid dreams. Life without them would be so much easier.
DCS: MiG-23

Make it happen, and take my money!
asla36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2017, 07:21 PM   #47
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 379

Originally Posted by asla36 View Post
... Life without them would be so much easier. ...
yes, but boring!
See my Youtube Channel, which is dedicated to Viggen pilots: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_Y...ezoWQkYKCGYB9w
| CSL | i7 6700 @ 4.0 GHz | GTX 1070 8GB | 16GB 2400MHz DDR4 | 256 GB SDD + 1 TB HDD | CH Flightstick Pro USB | Win7 Professional 64-Bit |
TOViper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2017, 04:39 PM   #48
Junior Member
ILoveRice's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 14

Originally Posted by oreste View Post
Great plane,is my dream,see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jqiDEcfSnXs
At 2:10 it does a cobra and barrel roll, absolutely amazing for a design from the 50's! :O It makes me really want to fly it in DCS.
ILoveRice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2017, 05:41 PM   #49
renhanxue's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 507

Originally Posted by ILoveRice View Post
At 2:10 it does a cobra and barrel roll, absolutely amazing for a design from the 50's! :O It makes me really want to fly it in DCS.
It's not really a cobra in the modern sense of the word - the Draken really isn't very capable in the high alpha/low speed regime and has a rather restrictive flight envelope. What you're looking at is actually a "controlled" (scare quotes very intentional) entry into deep stall by exceeding the allowed alpha limit, followed by an immediate recovery from it. The entire maneuver hinges on retaining sufficient elevator authority for just long enough to recover before the aircraft starts falling like a brick. The maneuver is very violent (you pull a lot of positive G's for a very short time), it's not controllable to any meaningful degree, and you also lose a lot of energy doing it. The Viggen is potentially capable of doing the same kind of thing (according to the flight manual, at least) but its much riskier there. The Draken predates computer aided design and its thick stubby wings ended up being quite overbuilt for its rated G limits, so it can actually pull this kind of thing off in exercises without too much danger to the aircraft.

Last edited by renhanxue; 12-29-2017 at 05:44 PM.
renhanxue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2017, 11:09 PM   #50
Junior Member
ILoveRice's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 14

I found this interesting post on another thread which imo sums up the Draken 'superstall':

What Draken is doing is not a Cobra at all. It is an example of a serious drawback to the high aspect ratio, high sweep compound delta, ie. its tendency to go into an uncontrollable deep stall/superstall if the airflow was sufficiently disturbed.

All it took was a quick jolt in the roll axis at a moderate AoA (as you can see clearly in the footage) and the entire aircraft would pitch up violently and eventually enter an irrecoverable spin toward terra firma if the pilot did not react quickly enough with precisely the right control input before the machine passed the spin threshold. This inherent design issue was well known, it killed a whole bunch of pilots and ruined many more airframes, but it was kept largely under wraps for the time being due to the negative publicity it would have caused. Being a highly novel design, the developers knew that they took some serious risks and they had to persuade the government and the public opinion that taking such risks were worth it to stay in the game and produce a competitive aircraft. The same thing applied to the oftentimes overwhelming teething issues present in the earlier J 29 and the later AJ/JA 37 and JAS 39 (the A 32 was less controversial I think). There was a lot of negative press about them all in Sweden and both SAAB and the Air Force constantly had to defend themselves.

At the end of the 1960's the Swedish Air Force decided to address it by commissioning four trainer Drakens (Sk 35C) modified with anti-spin chutes and additional wing fences in the role of letting pilots familiarise themselves with this problem and learn how to recover from it should it occur.

All videos are from these exercises, which began in 1969 and continued for a long time (basically for as long as the Draken remained in active service). Typically the modified Sk 35C would be piloted by the student, with an experienced test pilot in the 2nd seat. Even with the spin recovery chutes and airframe modifications, it was a bit sweaty and the exercises were carried out at 35-38,000 feet or more for additional safety as you still needed quite a margin for recovery should things go even a tiny bit wrong.

With enough training, the pilot could however recover from it fairly swiftly, which is what we are seeing in these vids. But do keep in mind that it was a dangerous and essentially uncontrollable "maneuver", and it led to quite a few disasters over Drakens service years. I've heard from people involved that these exercises definitely weren't something the pilots looked forward to...

Foreign Draken operators were also keen on putting their pilots through this superstall familiarisation programme, which was carried out at the former Swedish AF base in Ängelholm (F 10, Scania Air Force Wing). The most recent clips of these exercises involved FAF and AAF Draken pilots IIRC.
Modules: AV-8B, Hawk, Viggen, FC3, F-5E, MiG-21, Mirage 2000, L-39.
ILoveRice is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:14 PM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.