For those who trim by tapping the trim button - Page 7 - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-06-2017, 02:56 AM   #61
StrongHarm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA, EST
Posts: 1,911
Reputation power: 63
StrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to behold
Default

Can I propose that the reason some of us speculate that the AP/Trim/Cyclic may be unrealistic is because we're not using it realistically? To my earlier post; once I started turning off the *AP heading channel* to make a *heading change* rather than *resetting trim* just to change a single axis, things started feeling perfectly normal and realistic. It took some getting used to, and it wasn't easy to wrap my head around it because I was so dependent on the trim reset, but once it clicked for me it then seemed like the only logical choice and it became clear to me that I was doing it wrong before. Holding trim reset to change heading now seems equally as silly to me as continuously holding the autohover button whenever I don't want to hover. Likewise, if I'm rapidly changing flight profile, such as when I'm terrain masking to get on target, I'll turn on flight director.. or more often just leave the HeadingAP and AltAP channels off. With the channels bound to my HOTAS it feels natural and I've become a much better Blackshark pilot. Now, I can't speak to whether this is *the realistic way* or not.. but I know the Blackshark became much more enjoyable after I weaned myself off of the Trim Reset button.
__________________
User Missions I've Created
StrongHarm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 06:02 AM   #62
M1Combat
Member
 
M1Combat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Prescott AZ, US
Posts: 227
Reputation power: 3
M1Combat is on a distinguished road
Default

Eh... there's both a trim and a trim reset. I assume you're talking about holding the trim and not holding the trim reset right? I don't even have trim reset bound.
__________________
Win-10 x64

Nvidia GTX970
MSI Z77 MPower
Core i5-3570K
8GB G-Skill DDR3-1600

Saitek X-65F and Fanatec Club-Sport Pedals
(UCR - mapping throttle and clutch pedals together to form a rudder Axis)
GamesCom/Plantronics 780 USB Headset
M1Combat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 11:53 AM   #63
PeaceSells
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Brazil
Posts: 143
Reputation power: 3
PeaceSells is a jewel in the roughPeaceSells is a jewel in the roughPeaceSells is a jewel in the roughPeaceSells is a jewel in the roughPeaceSells is a jewel in the roughPeaceSells is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StrongHarm View Post
Can I propose that the reason some of us speculate that the AP/Trim/Cyclic may be unrealistic is because we're not using it realistically? To my earlier post; once I started turning off the *AP heading channel* to make a *heading change* rather than *resetting trim* just to change a single axis, things started feeling perfectly normal and realistic.
But... do you think real shark pilots keep removing their hand from the stick everytime they want to make heading adjustments (remember that the heading channel button in the real shark is not on the stick)?
__________________
Core i7 4770 3.40GHz, 16GB RAM, GeForce GTX 770 2GB, Intel motherboard DB85FL, ASUS monitor VG248 144Hz 24" 16:9, Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS and TFRP pedals, TrackHat Clip Kit, Logitech G300 mouse 1000Hz @1000DPI, Windows 10 64bit
PeaceSells is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 08:28 PM   #64
StrongHarm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA, EST
Posts: 1,911
Reputation power: 63
StrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceSells View Post
But... do you think real shark pilots keep removing their hand from the stick everytime they want to make heading adjustments (remember that the heading channel button in the real shark is not on the stick)?
I'm proposing that maybe they don't activate the HeadingAP and AltAP channels unless they want to lock in heading and alt parameters. I fly like this and it seems very natural. But of course, I'm just speculating as we all are.

Not that the AP channels of the Blackshark should be equated to AP in fixed wing aircraft, but in a loose comparison the AP channels of the F-15 are also not on the HOTAS. Was it bad design to place the AP controls on the right horizontal panel? Yeah, probably. But as in other aircraft, those channels probably won't be used in dynamic situations where heavy maneuvers are required. I actually use the emergency AP release when performing evasive maneuvers such as with incoming missiles. The four channels are bound to the directions of my WH HOTAS CounterMeasures hat, and emergency release is CounterMeasures push. When I have incoming ATM, hitting AP release has saved my digital bacon more than once. The bird becomes ultra agile no channels engaged of course. In a non-evasive non-threat flight profile, while NOE for instance, the alt and heading channels really aren't that useful, whereas pitch and bank are helpful for stabilization. I would go as far as to say that most of the time if I'm using Heading and Alt AP I'm probably also in an autohover/autotarget profile, or in Auto Route. My speculation is that the real pilots of this bird might do the same thing, whereas we in the sim community see autopilot as an 'all or nothing' scenario because of habits carried over from fixed wing autopilot.
__________________
User Missions I've Created
StrongHarm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 09:52 PM   #65
PeaceSells
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Brazil
Posts: 143
Reputation power: 3
PeaceSells is a jewel in the roughPeaceSells is a jewel in the roughPeaceSells is a jewel in the roughPeaceSells is a jewel in the roughPeaceSells is a jewel in the roughPeaceSells is a jewel in the rough
Default

^^ What you're saying makes a lot of sense, specially because there are separated buttons for pitch, yaw and roll AP. I fly as recommended on the forum guides, with the three buttons always engaged and sometimes will use the emergency switch on the stick like you said, that will turn off all three also simultaneously. But if we're always engaging and disengaging all three channels simultaneously, why do we have three separated buttons in the first place?

On the other hand, the fact that the AP only has 20% authority makes me think otherwise: that it's supposed to be always on for the three channels, because it lets you maneuver kinda normally even against the AP. Not only @159th_Viper demonstrated it in his last video, but coincidentally when he posted that was about the same time I caught myself maneuvering without using the trim for relatively prolonged periods without realizing it. Plus you have to consider that the real benefit of having the three AP channels on AND FD off AND trim button not hold down is the incredible stability for doing strafing runs or firing Vikhrs. And this is at the same time the exact moment when ability to maneuver is most critical too. So from that I understand that you're meant to maneuver while having the three AP channels on, and that's the reason for AP having only 20% authority...
__________________
Core i7 4770 3.40GHz, 16GB RAM, GeForce GTX 770 2GB, Intel motherboard DB85FL, ASUS monitor VG248 144Hz 24" 16:9, Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS and TFRP pedals, TrackHat Clip Kit, Logitech G300 mouse 1000Hz @1000DPI, Windows 10 64bit
PeaceSells is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 09:55 PM   #66
M1Combat
Member
 
M1Combat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Prescott AZ, US
Posts: 227
Reputation power: 3
M1Combat is on a distinguished road
Default

I like it StrongHarm.

I've recently been playing around with flying the thing with no AP enabled at all and focusing on aerobatics. It's pretty awesome for that but I prefer using pitch hold alone for general flying. I hadn't considered mapping them to a hat. I have them on four buttons just ahead of the throttle on my X65F. I think I'll put them on a hat.
__________________
Win-10 x64

Nvidia GTX970
MSI Z77 MPower
Core i5-3570K
8GB G-Skill DDR3-1600

Saitek X-65F and Fanatec Club-Sport Pedals
(UCR - mapping throttle and clutch pedals together to form a rudder Axis)
GamesCom/Plantronics 780 USB Headset
M1Combat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 09:59 PM   #67
PeaceSells
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Brazil
Posts: 143
Reputation power: 3
PeaceSells is a jewel in the roughPeaceSells is a jewel in the roughPeaceSells is a jewel in the roughPeaceSells is a jewel in the roughPeaceSells is a jewel in the roughPeaceSells is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M1Combat View Post
I think I'll put them on a hat.
BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!
__________________
Core i7 4770 3.40GHz, 16GB RAM, GeForce GTX 770 2GB, Intel motherboard DB85FL, ASUS monitor VG248 144Hz 24" 16:9, Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS and TFRP pedals, TrackHat Clip Kit, Logitech G300 mouse 1000Hz @1000DPI, Windows 10 64bit
PeaceSells is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2017, 03:09 AM   #68
StrongHarm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA, EST
Posts: 1,911
Reputation power: 63
StrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to beholdStrongHarm is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceSells View Post
^^ What you're saying makes a lot of sense, specially because there are separated buttons for pitch, yaw and roll AP. I fly as recommended on the forum guides, with the three buttons always engaged and sometimes will use the emergency switch on the stick like you said, that will turn off all three also simultaneously. But if we're always engaging and disengaging all three channels simultaneously, why do we have three separated buttons in the first place?

On the other hand, the fact that the AP only has 20% authority makes me think otherwise: that it's supposed to be always on for the three channels, because it lets you maneuver kinda normally even against the AP. Not only @159th_Viper demonstrated it in his last video, but coincidentally when he posted that was about the same time I caught myself maneuvering without using the trim for relatively prolonged periods without realizing it. Plus you have to consider that the real benefit of having the three AP channels on AND FD off AND trim button not hold down is the incredible stability for doing strafing runs or firing Vikhrs. And this is at the same time the exact moment when ability to maneuver is most critical too. So from that I understand that you're meant to maneuver while having the three AP channels on, and that's the reason for AP having only 20% authority...

I absolutely agree with you; *pitch and bank* 20% authority does a lot to stabilize the aircraft. HeadingAP tries to point back to the heading queue and forces people to hold the Trim when they want to make a heading change (while, simply turning HeadingAP off, making your heading change, and turning it back on alters the heading of your queue and holds it just as trim does), and AltAP makes you overuse the collective (remember that time when you had the collective overcompensated and your rotors flew to pieces when it went over that 20% authority threshold abruptly?). Since I freed myself of 'all or nothing' Blackshark AP, me and the bird have become much closer friends.
__________________
User Missions I've Created
StrongHarm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2017, 08:56 PM   #69
Rogue Trooper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 1,383
Reputation power: 10
Rogue Trooper is just really niceRogue Trooper is just really niceRogue Trooper is just really niceRogue Trooper is just really niceRogue Trooper is just really niceRogue Trooper is just really niceRogue Trooper is just really niceRogue Trooper is just really nice
Default

For me the individual APs on your Hotas as well as the emergency AP disengage button brings this chopper into the realm of superb man machine integration.


If there was any flying machine that required the very best and advanced Hotas system, the KA-50 was it!

Last edited by Rogue Trooper; 12-07-2017 at 10:06 PM.
Rogue Trooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 03:34 AM   #70
Rogue Trooper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 1,383
Reputation power: 10
Rogue Trooper is just really niceRogue Trooper is just really niceRogue Trooper is just really niceRogue Trooper is just really niceRogue Trooper is just really niceRogue Trooper is just really niceRogue Trooper is just really niceRogue Trooper is just really nice
Default

The way that Ed has left the KA-50 and from my point of view; she is a fabulous machine armed with dreadfully fast precision high penetration missiles.
There is a lot to shout about in the KA-50 simulator!
Rogue Trooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:48 PM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.