Fear the S.530D!

Never thought I would see this on a Fox-1 server. Apparently the S.530D strikes fear into the hearts of a particular server admin.:megalol:

P.S. The F-14s had Aim-54s, too, because it was "historical."

Im 99% sure he is going for a specific time period with this server, not for balance, I know the guy and the server. The super was not in service in 1981/83 (forgot which the server was for exactly), but no this isnt for balance. Which is why the 14s have AIM-54s, but no ERs for the flankers.

And Greek Mirage 2000 EG got the Super 530D even later than the French Air Force.

They did effectively operate in QRA with 4 x Magic 2.

But Mirage 2000 EG are on Blue side :music_whistling:

If it is 1983 then that is before the Su27 entered service. :)

Like jojo points out. If you want historical accuracy then you don't put Greek M2kc on red alongside the USSR.

So I checked and it turns out the mission was 1984, but regardless I dont think he fears the S530, the ER is far deadlier

So I checked and it turns out the mission was 1984, but regardless I dont think he fears the S530, the ER is far deadlier

And when was the R-27ER put into service?

And when was the R-27ER put into service?

There are no ERs there, its just Rs and AIM-7Ms, my mistake.

the ER is far deadlier

That's a hell of an assumption...

If you refer to the R-27R, the only apparent superiority is a longer range, but it might not have an auto-destruct timer like the R530 does. = Max Aero range.

Max Aero range is often given as Maximum by AAM manufacturers, French manufacturers does not use those data, instead, they give the extreme end of the effective range, obviously lower when released in the public domain than in Squadron data.

Altitude separation from altitude/speed is what reflect best their respective role:

The R530 F/D were designed to kill M2.5 targets at up to above 50.000 ft in snap-up mode, which explains their high maximum speed of M4.5/5.0 but also their relatively limited range.

It looks as if the R-27R operational envelop allows for a maximum altitude separation of only 32.000ft, which is way lower than one could expect for missile of the 73km claimed range, this suggest a Max Aero range, not Effective range.

Max range is 73 km but maximum effective range is 42.5 km head-on at target altitude, data provided by MATRA suggest that R530F could fly further but will self destruct after its timer runs out in the event it misses the interception, it will kill a target from 52.000ft with a 30.000 ft vertical separation at 40 km.

So in effect, the Super R530 F trade 2.5 km effective range for 30.000ft altitude separation to target.

The R530 F firing envelop allows for interception of high speed/high altitude targets with a Max range going from 20 to 40KM depending on firing altitude.

This document released by MATRA was for the F variant (I got it from an active AdlA weapon specialist who insisted there was no all-public information available on the D model), the D has improved performances, + 0.5 Mach and you can expect a larger firing envelop as well.

You can easily conclude that in its role, the Super-530 D had better capabilities than the R-27R, as it is designed for what is basically point defense against targets such as the Mig-25 and offers the shooter, higher separation values from its target (from lower speed and altitudes) as well as higher Max Mach and near equal range with an advantage of 30.000 vertical separation in snap-up mode.

Detail on the document, MATRA specifies that it is up to the missile to compensate for low speed/altitude of the shooter, which mean, it doesn't need the platform to fly high and fast to achieve those performances, from my PoV, it is due to the high acceleration onset and velocity provided by its motor.

One credible source on the history of French missiles provide further details:

The Super 530 D is the version adapted to the Mirage 2000 equipped with an on-board pulse doppler radar (called RDI, pulse doppler radar). The main differences in characteristics compared to the F are as follows:

 

- semi-active EMD doppler seeker (see chapter 8, EMD), with digital technology from 1980 (microprocessor for management); significantly increased DA range: 50 km; very high resistance to modern countermeasures;

 

- partially digitized computer pilot;

 

- more efficient vehicle: increased mass and length (+ 30 kg and + 265 mm), total impulse thruster 16% higher, with a composite SEP casing;

 

- performance: maximum speed of Mach 5; Possible height difference increased, allowing attack of targets at 24,000 m; minimum target altitude of 60 m; Maximum firing distance of 50 km, with an intercept distance of 35 km.

http://marc.mistral.free.fr/aventure/militaire/missiles%20tactiques/mt%2059%2079/mt%20ch%2009.htm

The intercept distance last quoted is within the NEZ, the missile will not fire unless it is at firing range and that's 50 km for the D with a higher vertical separation than the F 30.000 ft.

......

the ER is far deadlier

If you refer to the R-27R

Nuff said... also the R-27 has a 60sec timer fyi, it doesnt self destruct but it just stops operating.

Also i have no idea where you sourced the maximum vertical seperation of 27kft, the Su-27SK manual puts it at ±10km for the Short Burn alamos, and maximum target hieght of 25km (82kft):

+ a translated version,

Nuff said... also the R-27 has a 60sec timer fyi, it doesnt self destruct but it just stops operating.

Also i have no idea where you sourced the maximum vertical seperation of 27kft, the Su-27SK manual puts it at ±10km for the Short Burn alamos, and maximum target hieght of 25km (82kft):

+ a translated version,

Still inferior to super 530 D...

I admit I haven't been looking very far, Wikipedia to be precise, but they quote [8] Su-27 Flight Manual booklet-1. 2001. p. 129 as source.

Since we compare the variants available in the game, the R-27R is on par with the Super 530 F but inferior to the D which also have a top speed 0.5M higher (*).

Maximum range of the R-27R is given head-on at target altitude while that of the F/Ds are given with a vertical separation of 30.000 ft = 40 km launched from 52.450 ft (see intercept profile on MATRA doc).

Altitude range of the flight of target doesn't mean anything, apart for the altitude at which the Aircraft can launch the missile and it's not a missile flight envelop limitation but that of the platform.

AdlA Mirage 2000 are limited to an Operational ceiling of 60.000 ft for pilot safety, they are no longer equipped with pressure suits, that's the only reason for this limitation, typically, firing altitude would be 52.450 ft.

So I don't know how you can conclude that the R-27R is deadlier than the Super 530D, for the R variant, the data proves the opposite.

(*) R530F achieves roughly the same range but with 30.000 ft climb and the D has improved performance and a 0.5 Mach advantage, which matters a LOT when it comes to hitting maneuvering targets, the AAM will need roughly 4 to 5 times the energy translated in available G of a maneuvering target to achieve a kill, R530D has 10% advantage in energy level.

Max Aero range is the area where the missile no longer have enough energy for hitting maneuvering targets, the higher the Mach, the higher the energy level, the larger the NEZ and probabilities of kill out of it, before Aero range is reached, logically that would be 50 km, Max Firing Distance but still with a 30.000 ft climb.

As I pointed out, the R530F/D are designed specifically for high levels of vertical separation, not the case of the Russian AAMs, France doesn't have the luxury of a large land mass, a Mirage taking off to intercept a Mig-25 about to cross the border is very unlikely to have time to reach level altitude before the target is out of range, this is the reason behind the conception of those AAMs.

.....