Kiowa release date?

This is related to the release date discussion how again?????

It's not. It's not even related to PolyChop or the Kiowa. Issues with LOS, RADAR effectiveness etc... are DCS issues and not something that PC are in a position to resolve.

As the Kiowa Warrior is still in ongoing development and we do not plan on an early access release but rather a feature complete release, all we can say for now is that we aim for release in 2020.

This is great news to me. I aimed for the Hind to be my first helicopter since Jane's Longbow 2, and for a long time the only helicopter for me to fly in DCS, but scratched it because i decided not to buy any more EA aircrafts unless the Hornet is truly feature complete. I just came across this thread by accident because i wanted to check if there are any news about the Kiowa. Seems like the Kiowa just slipped onto that position and the Hind has to wait a few more years. Realy great to hear you guys take your time and don't release in a hurry. This module will be a pre-order purchase and if not possible, a first day purchase. Either way it's fine with me. The only question i 'd like to ask is, if the Kiowa is released feature complete and only needs betatesting and bugfixing... Do you take up the next project after the Kiowas release? The Kiowa cries for an AH-64A, so...

LMAO! Fri13 > I usually just skip reading your post, but this one made my day!

Hillarious :megalol:

I am waiting your public apology soon....

Early access, also known as early funding, alpha-access, alpha founding, or paid-alpha, is a funding model in the video game industry by which consumers can purchase and play a game in the various pre-release development cycles, such as pre-alpha, alpha, and/or beta, while the developer is able to use those funds to ...

When you purchase a Early Access title, you do not have to buy it again. You are simply buying it early, when many bugs are still present, and you are in the early stages of the game where the developers are still trying to get everything straight for the full release.

And....?

What requires explanation for you from what I said?

Have we clarified the EA question? Yes? Very good! What does that have to do with whining, ignorant people? If there are people in DCS who just don't want to support this crap?

What is has to do? Have you been around while back when ED just came around and changed their Open Beta update schedule from one week to one month and so on, because this forum is full of whiners who go and buy a early access module well knowing it says so on store page, and then they start whining how the module doesn't work as it has features missing or something is broken.

Then these same people install Open Beta version, a version of DCS World that is under development for testing purposes, so users who opt to help ED find bugs, test to brake it and get information for ED when some things works or not. And then starts to scream around forums, reddit, Twitter and who knows even where else, that how a last weekly beta product major update broke their game or their favorite module feature or this and that.

They start to write open letters to ED by demanding how to test their development product, how to deliver a code for every week that it works etc etc. Because now they can't fly for a whole week as their favorite toy is broken!

Instead writing these letters, whining around forum how the update broke things etc etc and ED should not allow so to happen, they could have simply written couple commands and previous version number to their command line and reverse the update back to previous version that still worked....!

And then wait at least that one week to see if next version then fixes the crashing bug or so.

These people has all the powers in their hands. They didn't need to go click "update" after rushing to computer every week. They simply had all options to click "later" and keep testing product otherwise.

And they have all the power in their hands to install Stable Version, not development version. And even there to opt "later".

And no one is required by any means to buy a Early Access module to fly it while still in development! Everyone is free to buy it, and sit on their hands while not installing it but waiting it to come out from early access as complete ready!

Polychop got flak because their flight modeling, not because early access. The early access actually went well, the flight modeling is just still what it is, even after leaving early access period!

Now polychop skip the early access model, and people are expecting that they receive a finished and completed product that doesn't have a problems like Gazelle....

Gazelle could come put now, today as new product. People would need some time to find that its flight modeling is not as something that expected and needs to rework.

would people stop whining because it is not early access model? No....

But we would have a lot less whiners about it because they would not have been doing so for years in development product!

Polychop developing now Kiowa is under a stress that people are expecting ready product. They are expecting marvelous flight modeling, and that after Kiowa the new way to develop is used to rewrite gazelle flight modeling to fix it.

But what happens IF THE KIOWA has same disappointment WITHOUT early access? Hell gets loose.

What if Polychop gets Kiowa out without major problems and just needs to do some normal small bug reporting and polish things out? People who didn't get access to unfinished product with the extra time will be praising the quality, because Developer denied their access to unfinished product as those whiners didn't have self-restrictions to wait in other scenarios with available products under development!

How does it differentiate from early access model where flight modeling is superb, bugs gets fixed in good time and development goes forward nicely and feature completed products gets to release version?

Only two things are separating it.

1) developers skills to develop a software product.

2) no whiners participating to early access and under development products.

The early access doesn't affect to code, or skills to write code, it affects to funding and assistance for more hands to find problems with proper bug reports.

but it as well affects to access to product that is not finished by people who shouldn't participate to early access phase at all but without self-restraint, those people would still get it to their hands and whine around when their expected features ain't in or when it gets broken for a while....

Developers at least should be happy this is not open source, because they would hear a lot of comments about their profession as welll very likely.....

Do trees offer concealment against the AI in DCS?

Yes. It was one big change in 2.0 alpha that added tree collisions. The 1.x series didn't have any effect from trees to collision. Why you had units shooting through trees and moving through them.

It was not a problem back then as DCS World was based to fighter simulator, and KA-50 as only helicopter was just oddity. So when ED started to develop a new terrain and EDGE graphics engine, they had a change to implement tree collisions as at that time computer resources were at level that such didn't impact resources much.

But before you could been hovering behind trees and AI happily shot you.

I still find trees little off, as your rotors can chip through them at various distances, but nothing serious like earlier.

I see, I guess that's because radar frequency, wave length and resolution are not simulated?

Nothing like that. The detection system for radars is super simple. The hornet was first module to simulate a radar beam cone, that radar keeps sweeping front of it and it is used to detect does it find something. Then a simple range is used against target angle (IIRC few angles like front, front edge, sideways, up/below) and that as a multiplier to detection probability.

Mirage 2000 has similar for IR missiles.

So one can say "simulated" but it is more like a simulate predictions, not simulate the system.

How about skylining? Does this affect in any way the AI spotting, either visual or radar?

Visually yes. There are methods to calculate do you have background, are you lit or in shadows, is there sky behind, are you moving etc basic things. Based to the code, it is fairly well done, but problem is the AI itself that requires complete overdo. And ED is developing new AI and so on hopefully we see AI that doesn't detect you because you flew inside their detection ring, even behind a mountain. As currently if you pop-up behind a ridge first time, they react quickly as they knew you were there.

But as each AI is given a random reaction timer, you get illusion that they spot you later on.

Nothing like that. The detection system for radars is super simple. The hornet was first module to simulate a radar beam cone, that radar keeps sweeping front of it and it is used to detect does it find something. Then a simple range is used against target angle (IIRC few angles like front, front edge, sideways, up/below) and that as a multiplier to detection probability.

 

Mirage 2000 has similar for IR missiles.

 

So one can say "simulated" but it is more like a simulate predictions, not simulate the system.

 

 

 

Visually yes. There are methods to calculate do you have background, are you lit or in shadows, is there sky behind, are you moving etc basic things. Based to the code, it is fairly well done, but problem is the AI itself that requires complete overdo. And ED is developing new AI and so on hopefully we see AI that doesn't detect you because you flew inside their detection ring, even behind a mountain. As currently if you pop-up behind a ridge first time, they react quickly as they knew you were there.

 

But as each AI is given a random reaction timer, you get illusion that they spot you later on.

Thank you.

And....?

 

What requires explanation for you from what I said?

 

Oh, forgive me, your lordship! I will ask for your permission next time.

What is has to do? Have you been around while back when ED just came around and changed their Open Beta update schedule from one week to one month and so on, because this forum is full of whiners who go and buy a early access module well knowing it says so on store page, and then they start whining how the module doesn't work as it has features missing or something is broken.

 

Then these same people install Open Beta version, a version of DCS World that is under development for testing purposes, so users who opt to help ED find bugs, test to brake it and get information for ED when some things works or not. And then starts to scream around forums, reddit, Twitter and who knows even where else, that how a last weekly beta product major update broke their game or their favorite module feature or this and that.

 

They start to write open letters to ED by demanding how to test their development product, how to deliver a code for every week that it works etc etc. Because now they can't fly for a whole week as their favorite toy is broken!

 

Instead writing these letters, whining around forum how the update broke things etc etc and ED should not allow so to happen, they could have simply written couple commands and previous version number to their command line and reverse the update back to previous version that still worked....!

 

And then wait at least that one week to see if next version then fixes the crashing bug or so.

 

These people has all the powers in their hands. They didn't need to go click "update" after rushing to computer every week. They simply had all options to click "later" and keep testing product otherwise.

 

And they have all the power in their hands to install Stable Version, not development version. And even there to opt "later".

 

And no one is required by any means to buy a Early Access module to fly it while still in development! Everyone is free to buy it, and sit on their hands while not installing it but waiting it to come out from early access as complete ready!

 

Polychop got flak because their flight modeling, not because early access. The early access actually went well, the flight modeling is just still what it is, even after leaving early access period!

 

Now polychop skip the early access model, and people are expecting that they receive a finished and completed product that doesn't have a problems like Gazelle....

Gazelle could come put now, today as new product. People would need some time to find that its flight modeling is not as something that expected and needs to rework.

would people stop whining because it is not early access model? No....

But we would have a lot less whiners about it because they would not have been doing so for years in development product!

 

Polychop developing now Kiowa is under a stress that people are expecting ready product. They are expecting marvelous flight modeling, and that after Kiowa the new way to develop is used to rewrite gazelle flight modeling to fix it.

 

But what happens IF THE KIOWA has same disappointment WITHOUT early access? Hell gets loose.

What if Polychop gets Kiowa out without major problems and just needs to do some normal small bug reporting and polish things out? People who didn't get access to unfinished product with the extra time will be praising the quality, because Developer denied their access to unfinished product as those whiners didn't have self-restrictions to wait in other scenarios with available products under development!

 

How does it differentiate from early access model where flight modeling is superb, bugs gets fixed in good time and development goes forward nicely and feature completed products gets to release version?

 

Only two things are separating it.

 

1) developers skills to develop a software product.

 

2) no whiners participating to early access and under development products.

 

The early access doesn't affect to code, or skills to write code, it affects to funding and assistance for more hands to find problems with proper bug reports.

but it as well affects to access to product that is not finished by people who shouldn't participate to early access phase at all but without self-restraint, those people would still get it to their hands and whine around when their expected features ain't in or when it gets broken for a while....

 

Developers at least should be happy this is not open source, because they would hear a lot of comments about their profession as welll very likely.....

Does it just seem to me or are you the one who laments and whines here ...?

Polychop developing now Kiowa is under a stress -> From which reliable source do you know this?

people are expecting ready product -> Umm yes, Polychop said that they want to bring out their new module feature complete. Or not now?

They are expecting marvelous flight modeling -> Who are they? Polychop himself said that they want to give the Kiowa flight model as precise as possible. It is understandable that we as customers take this statement at face value.

and that after Kiowa the new way to develop is used to rewrite gazelle flight modeling to fix it -> Polychop also said that they want to / will adapt the flight model to the Gazelle.

But what happens IF -> And you know that in advance? Do you have a glass ball that predicts the future, right? Let's better wait and see …

It is clear (probably to everyone) that a module that is feature complete will not be spared from bugfixing.

There is always post-production push testing and bugs that make it... even known bugs. Feature complete used to be the standard for "beta" software... that doesn't mean bug free, or even working very well at all... just containing all the features of the final product. Every dev team is different, though.

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ give kiowa ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

So any estimated date of release? September, October? Just few info enough ;) .

Now we know 2020 only....

So any estimated date of release? September, October? Just few info enough ;) .

Now we know 2020 only....

In 4 and a half months :P

So any estimated date of release? September, October? Just few info enough ;) .

Now we know 2020 only....

Well Barundus said he'd start making new videos "in two weeks" a few days ago, once FM and a few other things were finalized. Let's say end of August. After that, they still have to get it to Bell to get their feedback and approval (that was announced somewhere here as well). No idea how long that could last, but then you also need to integrate the module into DCS OB release schedule.

I would venture a guess for a release somewhere in November if all goes well and they don't encounter last-minute problems. Not to say that I don't hope for a surprise at the end of September or something. :music_whistling: We'll just have to fly what we already have until then, I am definitely excited for this new bird to come out. Patience is the name of the game in DCS.

Well Barundus said he'd start making new videos "in two weeks" a few days ago, once FM and a few other things were finalized. Let's say end of August. After that, they still have to get it to Bell to get their feedback and approval (that was announced somewhere here as well). No idea how long that could last, but then you also need to integrate the module into DCS OB release schedule.

 

I would venture a guess for a release somewhere in November if all goes well and they don't encounter last-minute problems. Not to say that I don't hope for a surprise at the end of September or something. :music_whistling: We'll just have to fly what we already have until then, I am definitely excited for this new bird to come out. Patience is the name of the game in DCS.

Thx for info. Probably if Mi-24P will be in November also ED will not allow it to be released in the same time (as I remember, it was the case with one module, I do not remember which one but had to wait for the release of the ED add-on first). So better before, for Syria map for example ;D.

Uhhh.

Okay, the "two weeks" statement from my previous post about my next vids is a tongue-in-cheek attempt at internet humor.

I assumed the "in two weeks" phrase is almost a standing DCS joke for "it'll be done when you see it".

To clarify and avoid confusion and consternation; when I said "in two weeks" last week, it was a joke.

It's still two weeks away. It'll still be "in two weeks" two weeks from now.

"Two weeks!" goes back further than DCS! More like Lock On days!

Uhhh.

 

Okay, the "two weeks" statement from my previous post about my next vids is a tongue-in-cheek attempt at internet humor.

 

I assumed the "in two weeks" phrase is almost a standing DCS joke for "it'll be done when you see it".

 

To clarify and avoid confusion and consternation; when I said "in two weeks" last week, it was a joke.

It's still two weeks away. It'll still be "in two weeks" two weeks from now.

But one question:

Are you aiming for a release in 2020 or would this be too early?

We’re aiming for a release in 2020.

I assumed the "in two weeks" phrase is almost a standing DCS joke for "it'll be done when you see it".

It is. Qiou87 is new here ;)

It is. Qiou87 is new here ;)

Exactly. And I spend a lot more time in the (virtual) cockpit than in the forum, which also doesn't help my knowledge of memes and inside jokes!

Exactly. And I spend a lot more time in the (virtual) cockpit than in the forum, which also doesn't help my knowledge of memes and inside jokes!

That's fine, you should be up to speed on all that...in about two weeks!

We’re aiming for a release in 2020.

Thank you!:thumbup: