Dynamic Campaign Discussion Thread

ED's Global Business Development Director gives a brief overview over the current development progess of the Dynamic Campaign here:

Not to be too pessimistic but I hear that and think we are at least another two years out from that being a reality.

Not to be too pessimistic but I hear that and think we are at least another two years out from that being a reality.

You're very optimistic.

Nick Grey, the co-founder and CEO of ED gives the first real information on the design of the Dynamic Campaign that ED is working on (staring at 08:00):

The first WIP screenshot of the Dynamic Campaign Engine also popped up today and there will probably be more info on it in todays newsletter.

If I understand correctly it seems like ED's Dynamic Campaign Engine will be more something like the Liberation Campaign mod (although much bigger and much more complex) and less like the Real Time Falcon Dynamic Campaign?

Newsletter update on the Dynamic Campaign:

Dynamic Campaign Engine

For DCS World

 

 

The DCS World Dynamic Campaign Engine combines a Real-Time Strategy (RTS) engine

with military forces and economics layers (production, logistics, use and transfer of resources)

that pitch two opposing sides aided by advanced strategic and tactical AI.

 

We have now completed the core RTS logic and have connected it to DCS World. We are

currently finalising the basics of the in-game economic models. We will be working on the

combat tasking logic and certain win-win situations in the near future. The last stage will

be the Client - Server architecture needed to support large campaigns with on-going

online sessions.

 

We are certain that you will have many detailed questions and look forward to revealing

more information on this module as and when we are in position to demonstrate some

of the features live.

Reading about the news about Dynamic campaign, I wish someday someone could make a connection between CMO (CMANO2) and DCS.

Lots of database, weapons number, etc.. are done already in CMO and could be connected with DCS someway. Even the creators of CMO talked about this possibility.

Nick Gray get more data about DC module and confirm that has nothing to do with Falcon / BMS style.

Seems very confusing to me. I don’t know what an RTS game can have to do with a flight simulator. I would just want to fly the plane within this world that has events occurring in it but I have no desire to try and command any of the units. Personally I find RTS games completely unappealing, clicking on little pee wee soldiers and watching them fight each other ... yawn ...

In an old post or news letter from about a year ago, they basically described it as an AI controlling the battle and then assigning tasks for the pilots to accomplish. Basically instead of you controlling the units, you are the unit being controlled.

Edit: here it is https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3735513&postcount=178

Dynamic Campaign

While a hangar of great aircraft is certainly a wonderful thing, having an engaging, exciting, and dynamic combat environment is equally important. We have been developing the inner-workings of a dynamic campaign system which will continue into 2019. Based on the strategic goals and tactical situations, the systems will create dynamic Air Tasking Orders (ATO) that players then join to help their side to victory. This work is non-trivial, but we believe the addition of this system should be exciting for DCS users.

clicking on little pee wee soldiers

You've got it wrong. You're the pee wee soldier, not (the so-called) them.

I would just want to fly the plane within this world that has events occurring

Which is an RTS game in the end, as someone needs to command the opposing forces so they fight each other. That can be an AI commander or the player. The goal is that the AI commander will be competent enough, so that the player doesn't have to do any force commanding at all and can leave it entirely to the AI commander if he chooses to.

I would just want to fly the plane within this world...

 

 

clicking on little pee wee soldiers and watching them fight each other ... yawn ...

These are the same thing. Both are individual units using tactics to accomplish strategic goals. But what are these "strategic goals?" Gaining territory and resources for your side while denying territory and resources to the enemy.

I don’t know what an RTS game can have to do with a flight simulator.

The Real Time part of RTS just means things happen concurrently. The Strategy parts is how you want to win. Use high tech long range units to win a war of attrition? How about flooding with low tech cheap units to overwhelm the enemy before they can respond? Multi-pronged harassment until a vulnerability develops? This applies to all RTS games.

Seems very confusing to me. I don’t know what an RTS game can have to do with a flight simulator. I would just want to fly the plane within this world that has events occurring in it but I have no desire to try and command any of the units. Personally I find RTS games completely unappealing, clicking on little pee wee soldiers and watching them fight each other ... yawn ...

Seems that you don't understand what a Real-Time Strategy games differ from a Real-Time Tactics games (that mistakenly often are referred as RTS).

I give you a hint. You, as an pilot, are just a one unit in large military actions. All what you do, is that you help ground forces to attack and defend something. Without ground forces you can't achieve anything.

The RTS element is about the everything there happens, reasons why you get missions to fly somewhere and do something and get back.

Seems that you don't understand what a Real-Time Strategy games differ from a Real-Time Tactics games

Yeah I assume we aren’t clicking on squadrons of little F-16s and then earning gold bricks to build forts with :lol:

But to me that’s what “RTS” means. Maybe they could use a different description.

Has anyone mentioned if the dynamic campaign is going to be playable in multiplayer and coop or is it going to be limited to single player?

Has anyone mentioned if the dynamic campaign is going to be playable in multiplayer and coop or is it going to be limited to single player?

Todays newsletter makes it pretty clear that it will also include multiplayer:

We have now completed the core RTS logic and have connected it to DCS World. We are currently finalising the basics of the in-game economic models. We will be working on the combat tasking logic and certain win-win situations in the near future. The last stage will be the Client - Server architecture needed to support large campaigns with on-going online sessions.

I hope this will work similar to the dynamic campaign in EECH, which was superior to Falcon 4 in that everything happened in real time and there was absolutely no loading hopping between units. Also, the missions being created followed a logical order: Recon, SEAD, Attack, Recon, Insertion.

Here's hoping that DCS will get there as well.

I hope this will work similar to the dynamic campaign in EECH, which was superior to Falcon 4 in that everything happened in real time and there was absolutely no loading hopping between units. Also, the missions being created followed a logical order: Recon, SEAD, Attack, Recon, Insertion.

 

Here's hoping that DCS will get there as well.

From what I've understood listening last interview it will be something like EE:AH/CH, real time, auto generated missions, self maintaining etc. But more ambitious with more factors included.

I’ve always thought the Enemy Engaged series campaign would be a good model for DCS.

Yes the EE campaign was gamey, yes as a pilot you actions affected events way more than they would in reality, but the EE campaign did keep me immersed and wanting to fly more missions. I’m a general gamer as well as a sim gam gamer and I’d rank some of my EECH campaign experiences as my most memorable in gaming.

I’ve always thought the Enemy Engaged series campaign would be a good model for DCS.

 

Yes the EE campaign was gamey, yes as a pilot you actions affected events way more than they would in reality, but the EE campaign did keep me immersed and wanting to fly more missions. I’m a general gamer as well as a sim gam gamer and I’d rank some of my EECH campaign experiences as my most memorable in gaming.

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Yes, I only used the single player campaign and can’t deny there were huge problems with it, particularly AI behavior. I remember it was ridiculously easy to lock and destroy fixed wing aircraft with the AH64s radar and auto tracking cannon. You could use a building as cover then lock them up as they came into your field of view then then shoot down whole flights with no reaction. You quickly got to know which types of mission the AI would have a decent stab at and which would be carnage unless you led them personally. The concept was ambitious and great fun though.

I remember playing EECH multiplayer and found that whenever clients on the other side would communicate with each other, their icon on the map would light up. They kept wondering how we found them so fast

 

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The problem with EECH DCE is that it didn't take long before one understood its simplified mechanics and realised that units would only spawn at airfields, so to win it was only a matter of fighting against airfields.

The highest priority for me is ability of AI to actually follow assigned flight plan in 4D.

Second priority is flight planning tool set that would allow quick creation of flight plans with automated creation of printable and/or ingame operational flight plans.

The highest priority for me is ability of AI to actually follow assigned flight plan in 4D.

My hope is for AI that are not suicidally aggressive.

The problem with EECH DCE is that it didn't take long before one understood its simplified mechanics and realised that units would only spawn at airfields, so to win it was only a matter of fighting against airfields.

Well airfields were the primary means of resupply so that made sense in the context of the game, but yeah, the campaign engine in EECH certainly wasn't the deepest. I was actually writing some code for the community patches (worked on the masterserver, fixed the wrong redfor ADIs, and the persistent smoke effects were my idea as well after having watched videos of various tank battle aftermaths)

Buuuuut, as others have said, drop-in-drop-out multiplayer campaigning would be amazing to have in DCS. I for one was actually very disappointed in Falcon 4 when that came out, and I found that all the game is doing is to generate a mission from the menu, then load into the game, and then it was back to the menu.

Also, I don't think this feature needs to be 100% perfect from the get-go. Additional mechanics and mission types can be added on later if needed.