How do you F5 guys use awacs to find bandits quickly and easily?

I'm currently flying the f5 single mission to defend the base. I have problems finding bandits and have trouble finding bandits in the F5 Hercules mission as well. I'll make my question ultra simple as I'm new. I'd prefer to keep it simple and not have to use rulers from bullseye or any other tricky method but just learn where awacs sees bogeys and what direction to face my aircraft.

What can I say or request from awacs so that I know where bandits are from my current position using my location / jet as the main point and then all I have to do is spin the course knob so that I can hen aim towards the bandits?

Can someone help me with this?

The regular "BOGEY DOPE" call will give you the heading and distance between you and the nearest enemy. What becomes tricky after certain distances is that the enemy is obviously moving, so by the time you're in the position the AWACS gave you, the enemy will be somewhere else.

Try to mentalise the bad guy's movement after a few calls some minutes apart, and work on anticipating their next position if possible.

>>>SITUATIONAL AWARENESS<<<

Bad things happen when you lose it.

Since the F-5 doesn't have all the bells and whistles of most other modules (something I love about it), it's crucial that you maintain great situational awareness. Know where you are at all times. Know the terrain, where front lines are, and know were you are in relation to bullseye.

When AWACS gives you BRA/Bulls, try to remember the one previous (if applicable) so you can get a more clear picture about what the bogey is actually doing. Maybe the bogey is not a threat at all, and is just loitering in no-man's land (example). Often times I won't react to the first BRA/Bulls issued, unless it's HOT. "Flanking" doesn't tell you if he's flanking to the left or right, but with good situational awareness, you can probably make an educated guess.

Take the time to read your mission briefings. If it's a new mission, make a note of where Bulls is, and then make a few area familiarization trips on an empty map to get yourself clued in on important locations. For example, if Senaki-Kolkhi is Bulls, then you know Sukhumi is 307 for 55; Kutaisi is 095 for 19; Kobuleti is 198 for 20; and the highest peak on the map is 009 for 69. Familiarize yourself with the map you're working on, and things will come to you really quick.

Hope it all helps. GL.

Jesus these are great replies.

Jesus these are great replies.

Sarcasm?? Not sure if my response actually helps, or not.

If you request PICTURE the BRA is from Bullseye.

With BOGEY DOPE the BRA is from your aircraft ( implies many calls by the AWACS to let you informed about enemy movement).

I usually request PICTURE if i'm cold , BOGEY DOPE when hot near enemy.

AWACS is a powerful tool even with 4th gen aircrafts cause you can snooze radar and going hot without being spotted.

Sarcasm?? Not sure if my response actually helps, or not.

I'd say he was actually saying the opposite. "Great replies" might be the clue there?

please dont request picture, you're not the only person in the air and when awacs is spending a minute listing all the contacts it sees youre denying your teammates access to bogey dopes.

I'd say he was actually saying the opposite. "Great replies" might be the clue there?

Correct! I was being extremely thankful and appreciative. You guys helped me sort this out promptly. Great community here.

I was able to jump back into my missions where I couldn't find a darn thing and actually complete Hercules with my F5. The big help was bogey dope for a course directly from my position. I was initially requesting from bullseye but coursing as if that mean straight from my own location lol.

While I'm here - an additional silly noon question if I may. When landing at the airport I took off from at the end of a mission.... Would I land in the same direction I took off from? So that when I finally come to a a stop after landing I'm at the end of the runway right near where I took off? I'm new to flight so take it easy on me here ;)

please dont request picture, you're not the only person in the air and when awacs is spending a minute listing all the contacts it sees youre denying your teammates access to bogey dopes.

He's asking specifically about single player missions...

Correct! I was being extremely thankful and appreciative. You guys helped me sort this out promptly. Great community here.

 

I was able to jump back into my missions where I couldn't find a darn thing and actually complete Hercules with my F5. The big help was bogey dope for a course directly from my position. I was initially requesting from bullseye but coursing as if that mean straight from my own location lol.

 

While I'm here - an additional silly noon question if I may. When landing at the airport I took off from at the end of a mission.... Would I land in the same direction I took off from? So that when I finally come to a a stop after landing I'm at the end of the runway right near where I took off? I'm new to flight so take it easy on me here ;)

You'll get the runway heading when you get clearance for landing (e.g. runway 22 means the runway heading is 220). Planes always want to take off or land into the wind so unless the wind changed direction (and as far as I understand, that doesn't happen because dynamic weather in DCS is very messy so mission makers don't really use it) then the answer to your question is yes.

While I'm here - an additional silly noon question if I may. When landing at the airport I took off from at the end of a mission.... Would I land in the same direction I took off from? So that when I finally come to a a stop after landing I'm at the end of the runway right near where I took off? I'm new to flight so take it easy on me here ;)

IIRC tower gives you the runway when you declare inbound or at least during final approach.

Usually it's the same course you used during takeoff.

I would love to see a proper ATC system in DCS , as for now is useless.

So true. Easier said then done, at least in my case. Especially spatial relationship between own ship and bulls-eye.

1- It helps to remember the table for detection of fighter sized crafts versus bomber sized crafts.

2- If you can close distance to detect said targets by putting marks on map after two bogey dope calls say 2 minute apart, you can plot an intercept on map especially if you have F-10 ownship only checked in gameplay.

3- AWACS reports aspect of bandits to you, flanking means trying to get to your sides, cold means going away, hot means closing in.

4- Altitude reported is native to AWACS coalition. US E-2/3 report in feet, while Il-76 reports in kilometers AGL.

5- try to be lower than reported bandit altitude to mask off ground clutter and allow radar elevation changes to above horizon to acquire a target higher than you. that is to say make it easier to pick bandit up on radar if in detection range per point 1.

6- Yes you land against facing the direction you took off from. meaning, if you took off to the east,you also land from the west. Single direction. or like aircraft carriers, stern to bow.

please dont request picture, you're not the only person in the air and when awacs is spending a minute listing all the contacts it sees youre denying your teammates access to bogey dopes.

This isn't really relevant even for multiplayer. There are times when a picture is more useful in MP environment, since it applies to everyone at once. Like you said, you're not the only one flying. For example, your closest bandit might not be the one flanking to kill your AWACS. The AWACS is a more important asset than any individual player flown aircraft. If you know your own BRA from bulls (like you should), it spits out a wall text you could still extrapolate from. Obviously it should be used sparingly, but it isn't logical to tell someone not to use it.

I've taken to taking my F5 out for a spin in multi player servers and trying to learn to use AWACS to help me ambush unsuspecting 

similar type aircraft 

I find I keep ending up in nose on confrontations where I may or may not get a good missile shot off in time

What I'm trying to figure out is,

is it possible to use the awacs to plan an attack to come up on the bogey's 6?

example, bogey is bearing 330 heading 90

If I fly due north i'm going to fly right into his path and end up head to head

would a better strategy be to let him cross my nose at a certain distance ??

say 20-30 miles 

and try to sneak up behind him assuming i'm fast enough to keep up?

fly something like 320 until he crosses and then try to chase him down?

13 hours ago, johnmjones1975 said:

I've taken to taking my F5 out for a spin in multi player servers and trying to learn to use AWACS to help me ambush unsuspecting 

similar type aircraft 

 

I find I keep ending up in nose on confrontations where I may or may not get a good missile shot off in time

 

What I'm trying to figure out is,

is it possible to use the awacs to plan an attack to come up on the bogey's 6?

 

example, bogey is bearing 330 heading 90

 

If I fly due north i'm going to fly right into his path and end up head to head

 

would a better strategy be to let him cross my nose at a certain distance ??

say 20-30 miles 

 

and try to sneak up behind him assuming i'm fast enough to keep up?

 

fly something like 320 until he crosses and then try to chase him down?

This would be called a stern conversion intercept, and it's definitely what you want to do. It's rather a large topic actually. Navy manuals have been written on how to do it properly and it involves some math and geometry. More than I can summarize here.

Very generally, I'd say you want to stay low and undetected as long as possible. Figure out based on multiple AWACs calls roughly what direction the bandit is going. Know the altitude as well. Plot a lead intercept (lead the bandit's flight path so you'll eventually cross paths). When you start getting close (let's say 15 miles), if the bandit still hasn't turned hot and detected you, turn to the bandit's reciprocal heading (i.e. if he's on heading 180, turn to 360), and hold it for a bit. Usually until around 10 miles. Then turn to a direct pursuit course (put bandit directly on your nose and keep him there). This should put you 1 - 2 miles on his 6. You'll need to climb up at him from below, so maybe get a little closer before the stern conversion. You'll have to experiment a bit.

Yes!

to experiment 

I created a bomber intercept mission with 2 mig 21s 

and chased them down by flying low on a heading 5-10deg off their bearing

in the direction opposite to their heading

they didn't detect me and I was able to take out the 2 migs before they knew i was there

and have a little guns practice on the bombers

was able to do same on multiplayer server and chased down another 21 last night.

so I roughly had it figured out after my wife was asking me what the hell I was drawing

your technique is much more refined and I'll try it tonight.

the 18 is amazing and  fun to learn all the systems etc;

but the F5 is so much more satisfying to get a kill in.

If you fly MP be aware that the F-18, F-16, and F-14 have "God RADARs" in that they see everything and are not subject to ground clutter (though I think this changed in the F-14).

MiG-21 and JF-17 (under human control) have accurately modeled RADARs, so F-5 tactics are more effective against these aircraft.

On 12/30/2020 at 5:01 AM, Tiger-II said:

If you fly MP be aware that the F-18, F-16, and F-14 have "God RADARs" in that they see everything and are not subject to ground clutter (though I think this changed in the F-14).

 

MiG-21 and JF-17 (under human control) have accurately modeled RADARs, so F-5 tactics are more effective against these aircraft.

The F/A-18C can certainly be notched (I'm pretty sure the same is true for the F-16C, but I don't fly it much). F-14 can be notched and it will also not see targets with a low closing speed when looking down at them. If anything in game has/had a "God RADAR" it's the JF-17 you for some reason singled out as "accurate" which was notch-proof at some point and I believe it still is buggy in this area.

There's room for improvement in all of the radar modeling in DCS but the reason it's hard to hide from modern fighters is their radars are objectively better.

On 6/18/2018 at 3:05 AM, Baaz said:

>>>SITUATIONAL AWARENESS<<<

 

Bad things happen when you lose it.

 

Since the F-5 doesn't have all the bells and whistles of most other modules (something I love about it), it's crucial that you maintain great situational awareness. Know where you are at all times. Know the terrain, where front lines are, and know were you are in relation to bullseye.

 

When AWACS gives you BRA/Bulls, try to remember the one previous (if applicable) so you can get a more clear picture about what the bogey is actually doing. Maybe the bogey is not a threat at all, and is just loitering in no-man's land (example). Often times I won't react to the first BRA/Bulls issued, unless it's HOT. "Flanking" doesn't tell you if he's flanking to the left or right, but with good situational awareness, you can probably make an educated guess.

 

Take the time to read your mission briefings. If it's a new mission, make a note of where Bulls is, and then make a few area familiarization trips on an empty map to get yourself clued in on important locations. For example, if Senaki-Kolkhi is Bulls, then you know Sukhumi is 307 for 55; Kutaisi is 095 for 19; Kobuleti is 198 for 20; and the highest peak on the map is 009 for 69. Familiarize yourself with the map you're working on, and things will come to you really quick.

 

Hope it all helps. GL.

 

What means BRA ?

6 hours ago, mayo25 said:

What means BRA ?

Bearing, Range, and Altitude

"Contact BRA 160 for 26 at 15,000" means contact is at bearing 160, 26 nautical miles away, at 15,000 ft altitude.

Ok, thx.

As a general rule, how often are you guys finding yourselves using the longer-range radar in conjuction with AWACS (20-40 NM on the radar range)? This is with multiplayer in mind. I feel like you can get most of the information you need via AWACS calls alone at those distances. Close range radar has been helpful in keeping a bead on a target through thick clouds and such, but I feel like with the long range radar you would just trigger your opponent's RWR. Then again, he should already be aware of you via his own AWACS calls so I'm not sure what to think.

TLDR: for longer pre-engagement ranges, radar on or radar off?

3 minutes ago, vukos said:

As a general rule, how often are you guys finding yourselves using the longer-range radar in conjuction with AWACS (20-40 NM on the radar range)? This is with multiplayer in mind. I feel like you can get most of the information you need via AWACS calls alone at those distances. Close range radar has been helpful in keeping a bead on a target through thick clouds and such, but I feel like with the long range radar you would just trigger your opponent's RWR. Then again, he should already be aware of you via his own AWACS calls so I'm not sure what to think.

 

TLDR: for longer pre-engagement ranges, radar on or radar off?

The only time I use my radar is basically to find friendlies / my flight. Other than that, always off.