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** AIM-54 Phoenix CFD Whitepaper! **


Cobra847

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mark my words, half a year later nobody is going to remember this.

 

but when they file their bogus report about how wrong it is that the aim-54 isnt getting them the sure kills they think the history channel promised them, some smartass is going to drag out this paper and point out the guidance deficiencies mentioned within, and half the thread will all of a sudden be in an uproar about the lack of fidelity and how they're mothballing or refunding the module because of it.

 

I think you are projecting. It seems that you have it set in your mind that the AIM-54 cant hit maneuvering fighters.

 

 

People have just as much a right to be upset about the missile not performing an 18g maneuver as they do anything else in the simulation that does not perform true to form.

 

My stance on it: I cant wait to knock pilots outta the sky with an under performing (7G) AIM-54. If anyone starts crying, it'll be people upset that the missile works.


Edited by Beamscanner
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No one will know what the missile will do until its put in game, Until then were just guessing and speculating, Lets wait until the release :thumbup:

But why not gather unrealistic expectations, and bitch about them not being matched by the real thing when it's released, while we can?

 

If HB keep this flow of content up, we will not get bored! Me likey these updates and clarifications.

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No one will know what the missile will do until its put in game, Until then were just guessing and speculating, Lets wait until the release :thumbup:

 

If you have a question about how it performs, just ask. I know what the missile does. :)

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I know what the missile does. :)

 

I have a strong feeling it explodes near radar contacts :helpsmilie: :smilewink:

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

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  • 1 month later...
mark my words, half a year later nobody is going to remember this.

 

but when they file their bogus report about how wrong it is that the aim-54 isnt getting them the sure kills they think the history channel promised them, some smartass is going to drag out this paper and point out the guidance deficiencies mentioned within, and half the thread will all of a sudden be in an uproar about the lack of fidelity and how they're mothballing or refunding the module because of it.

 

It's all part of the experience isn't it? Just look at the prebitching about the "very demanding graphics that will plummet fps everywhere"...

Wouldn't expect less from the community,however the work done on the F-14 is an investment in the future and DCS itself. This provides the foundation for more content to be added easier in the future. This is what matters, not little kiddies bitching about unbalanced airquake.

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Unfortunately it isn't.

 

I wonder if there could be a workaround to implement this behavior. Would it be possible to make the engine replace the "entire" missile FM code once the seeker goes active? In essence you develop two missiles and then once the missile goes terminal, the engine simply replaces the one missile with the other.

 

It's sort of "cheating" in simulation terms but as long as the results are closer to the real thing, who cares right?


Edited by OnlyforDCS

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I wonder if there could be a workaround to implement this behavior. Would it be possible to make the engine replace the "entire" missile FM code once the seeker goes active? In essence you develop two missiles and then once the missile goes terminal, the engine simply replaces the one missile with the other.

 

It's sort of "cheating" in simulation terms but as long as the results are closer to the real thing, who cares right?

 

Nope, can't be done. There is a workaround but the compromise is unacceptable.

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As many curves the aircraft FMs have to follow, I'm sure ED will eventually get around to adding some way to have the missiles G limit change. Maybe progressively as they get closer to the target.

They have already stated they gonna wait for ED to sort out the missile guidance first, so..... probably not.

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

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Yeah.. where did they ever say they were going to address guidance?

 

Wags has said multiple times that after their engineer finishes the work he has on A-G weapons, he will see what he can do with the A-A weapons.

 

He said this both in posts and live streams.

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... wut?

 

Yeah.. where did they ever say they were going to address guidance?

 

I think i may have misread page 3, paragraph 1 of the White Paper:

"These drawbacks are due to limitations in theDCS engine for missile guidance and countermeasure interaction. We will continue to work in consort with Heatblur to adjust missile parameters once these changes are implemented."

By substituting ED for Heatblur i got the impression that after ED made the changes to the missile guidance, the 54 would be changed to match its original performance. :doh:

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

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I think i may have misread page 3, paragraph 1 of the White Paper:

"These drawbacks are due to limitations in theDCS engine for missile guidance and countermeasure interaction. We will continue to work in consort with Heatblur to adjust missile parameters once these changes are implemented."

By substituting ED for Heatblur i got the impression that after ED made the changes to the missile guidance, the 54 would be changed to match its original performance. :doh:

 

Ooooh no worries. :)

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  • 2 months later...

As a rule of thumb, a missile needs 3x the g capability for each target g.

 

Again, it's a rule of thumb and not applicable to the entire envelope.

 

Can someone please clarify what this G-limit means in terms of performance in game vs performance in real life?

 

i.e. Does this mean decreased performance vs fighters at close range?

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  • 8 months later...

@IASGATG So i have gone through this document and your 2014 report concerning the aim-120 analysis which, as already discussed here, contains the drag analysis for different AoAs. Especially page 28-29 show that high G-loads and thus AoAs can have significant impacts on missile performance/distance.

 

 

 

As you state in the aim-54 report, you did forgo this analysis for the phoenix since you were not contracted to do so because the dcs engine won't allow for implementing custom drag curves according to g-load and AoA. On page 4 in this thread, you respond to this dilemma with;

 

 

"This is where the problem comes in. The coders can't do anything as it's all DCS engine hardcode. It's pointless doing 2 weeks of high cost work that then cannot be used.

 

Whilst I would love to have the drag force for different AoA's at different airspeeds at different altitudes, the fact remains that from a third party dev's perspective, the most they can change is the max Cl at <M1 and max Cl at >M4, the game engine calculates the rest."

 

 

 

 

So, with the missiles being reworked by ED atm, do you think this has changed and this type of analysis would make sense? Correct me if i misread or missed that in the 2014 report; the lofting graphs in the last section; do you recall how many G's and what AoA the missile pulled when climbing to altitude and coming down to intercept, especially against a manaeuvring target? Is that way less than one might think and thus is really is a non issue overall?


Edited by sc_neo
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