Swastika/Hakenkreuz

Are we just waiting for a stable/final/whatever version of 2.5 to get this mod for the German planes?

User made skins will have what your after, Due to political reasons.

Grammer n**i

User made skins will have what your after, Due to political reasons.

*you’re

**lower case “d” in “due”

:smartass:

User made skins will have what your after, Due to political reasons.

What do political reasons have to do with user made skins? We have had swastikas for the German planes in earlier DCSW versions. I’m just asking when we will have them again.

several countries banned this symbol, that is their rules

everyone who try to sell something with it, will break their law

even it is picture on box or it is displayed on your monitor...

i think, we used only "mod" for it, it was not default

and it is still possible, i use it, btw.

What do political reasons have to do with user made skins?

Nothing. Check the Internet/mods section for user made skins and download if you find one you want. Don't expect ED to make one with the swastika for the reasons mentioned above. If you can't find one you like, post in the Mods section of this forum and request what you want. There are people here who REALLY enjoy making skins and might make one you ask (nicely) for. :thumbup:

What do political reasons have to do with user made skins? We have had swastikas for the German planes in earlier DCSW versions. I’m just asking when we will have them again.

It is simply against the law in many countries in europe to show or use Nazi Symbols in Video games and in therefore forbidden. It just refelcts the currently applicable law e.g. in Germany or in Russia and several other countries around the world.

Although original post is somewhat unclear, I think Vinnie asks if it's still possible to enable swastika on default skins via editing description.lua file, as it was many versions ago. I've no idea if it is, or it will ever be again.

Although original post is somewhat unclear, I think Vinnie asks if it's still possible to enable swastika on default skins via editing description.lua file, as it was many versions ago. I've no idea if it is, or it will ever be again.

Pretty much what you said. I know the swastika is unlawful in several countries. However, in the past, mods were offered, by modders, to add it to German planes, if you wanted. I was just asking if there was a reason why none of those mods have been updated for the latest DCSW version.

Maybe a modder can give us some insight.

several countries banned this symbol, that is their rules

 

everyone who try to sell something with it, will break their law

 

even it is picture on box or it is displayed on your monitor...

 

i think, we used only "mod" for it, it was not default

and it is still possible, i use it, btw.

Which one do you use, and where do you save it to?

Although original post is somewhat unclear, I think Vinnie asks if it's still possible to enable swastika on default skins via editing description.lua file, as it was many versions ago. I've no idea if it is, or it will ever be again.

Pretty much what you said. I know the swastika is unlawful in several countries. However, in the past, mods were offered, by modders, to add it to German planes, if you wanted. I was just asking if there was a reason why none of those mods have been updated for the latest DCSW version.

 

Maybe a modder can give us some insight.

Ah ok, got it! I wasn't aware of that. :thumbup:

Will the recent change in German Law have any effect on the swastika not being in DCS? Or is it also banned in Russia or other countries?

"The German and Austrian postwar criminal code makes the public showing of the Hakenkreuz (the swastika), the sig rune, the Celtic cross (specifically the variations used by white power activists), the wolfsangel, the odal rune and the Totenkopf skull illegal, except for scholarly reasons (and, in the case of the odal rune, as the insignia of the rank of sergeant major, Hauptfeldwebel,[152] in the modern German Bundeswehr). It is also censored from the reprints of 1930s railway timetables published by the Reichsbahn. The eagle remains[where?], but appears to hold a solid black circle between its talons. The swastikas on Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain temples are exempt, as religious symbols cannot be banned in Germany.

The German fashion company Esprit Holdings was investigated for using traditional British-made folded leather buttons after complaints that they resembled swastikas. In response, Esprit Holdings destroyed two hundred thousand catalogues.[153][154]

A controversy was stirred by the decision of several police departments to begin inquiries against anti-fascists.[155] In late 2005 police raided the offices of the punk rock label and mail order store "Nix Gut Records" and confiscated merchandise depicting crossed-out swastikas and fists smashing swastikas. In 2006 the Stade police department started an inquiry against anti-fascist youths using a placard depicting a person dumping a swastika into a trashcan. The placard was displayed in opposition to the campaign of right-wing nationalist parties for local elections.[156]

On Friday, 17 March 2006, a member of the Bundestag, Claudia Roth reported herself to the German police for displaying a crossed-out swastika in multiple demonstrations against Neo-Nazis, and subsequently got the Bundestag to suspend her immunity from prosecution. She intended to show the absurdity of charging anti-fascists with using fascist symbols: "We don't need prosecution of non-violent young people engaging against right-wing extremism." On 15 March 2007, the Federal Court of Justice of Germany (Bundesgerichtshof) held that the crossed-out symbols were "clearly directed against a revival of national-socialist endeavors", thereby settling the dispute for the future.[157][158][159]

Legislation in other European countries

..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

I think meant is this:

https://www.pcgamer.com/germany-lifts-ban-on-swastikas-in-videogames/

not so much something from 2007

Will the recent change in German Law have any effect on the swastika not being in DCS? Or is it also banned in Russia or other countries?

There was no change in German law. What has changed is the interpretation of the law by the german authorities responsible for rating video games. There is an article in the law that makes an exception for forbidden symbols (like the Swastika) beeing used for the purpose of art, science and education. While this exception has always been applied to movies (which are considered art), it has not been applied to video games by the rating authorities. This has been criticized from various sides as beeing a wrong interpretation of the law for quite a long time and now the authorities adjusted their stance on that matter.

There was no change in German law. What has changed is the interpretation of the law by the german authorities responsible for rating video games. There is an article in the law that makes an exception for forbidden symbols (like the Swastika) beeing used for the purpose of art, science and education. While this exception has always been applied to movies (which are considered art), it has not been applied to video games by the rating authorities. This has been criticized from various sides as beeing a wrong interpretation of the law for quite a long time and now the authorities adjusted their stance on that matter.

Thanks for the clarification, but does this mean anything in practice? For example games like Wolfenstein and DCS would actually have a chance of showing swastika in Germany?

Thanks for the clarification, but does this mean anything in practice? For example games like Wolfenstein and DCS would actually have a chance of showing swastika in Germany?

Yes, before the rating authority would not have accepted any game that includes swastikas for rating, which meant the game would have automatically been rated as 18+ and can even be prohibited. Now a game that includes swastikas will be rated, just like any other game and can get a lower rating than 18+. Getting rated will also protect the devs from beeing prosecuted if a court decides that the game does not fall under the exception article mentioned before.

This is a major change to how it was before, because now it is very much possible to release a game with swastikas in germany without trouble. Previously a developer would to release his game without rating (meaning it would be treated as 18+). Additionally he would not have the law protection of such a rating, which means, that in case a court decides that the game does not fall under the previously mentioned exception article (and hence would be considered nazi propaganda), the developers would have been personally sentenced (which can mean prison).

Thanks for explaining! But this begs the question; will ED do something with this or is it general policy for them to not show swastikas? Yes I am looking at you ED ;)

Thanks for explaining! But this begs the question; will ED do something with this or is it general policy for them to not show swastikas? Yes I am looking at you ED ;)

I think its general ED policy, not just because of the german customers, but also because of other countries with such laws where DCS is beeing distributed (maybe even russian laws?).

In the past, there have been mods for adding the swastika to DCS aircraft. If those mods no longer work in 2.5, “will the modders update them” is the question.

In the past, there have been mods for adding the swastika to DCS aircraft. If those mods no longer work in 2.5, “will the modders update them” is the question.

You can still download these skin mods for both Bf-109 and FW-190. I use them and they still work with the current version 2.5

PS: No matter what the laws in Germany and elsewhere permit, the Hakenkreuz in the Nazi version is a symbol that many people cannot accept and therefore I believe that ED is well advised not to include it in the out-of-the-box software.

I am not a fan of the Swatika or the Nazis neither of any other symbols of opressive and murdering regimes such the URSS or the Japanese Empire.

However if I want to fly an historic German, Soviet or Japanese WWII aircraft the correct livery comes in the package because this is the part of "historic" side.

If this really displeases you, please choose a ficitional livery any time.

In the DCS simulator gamming arena such simbology has no political meaning, neither promotes ideology in any case.

So I think it would be great if we keep "political correctness" out of a simulator and try not to accomodate it to the actually imposed political correctness. We already have enough of that in our regular life :cry:

If someone does not like a Me-109 or a FW-190 with Swastikas, take a P-51 and shoot them down :D

That would be historical :thumbup:

It is simply against the law in many countries in europe to show or use Nazi Symbols in Video games and in therefore forbidden. It just refelcts the currently applicable law e.g. in Germany or in Russia and several other countries around the world.

Germany has the nerve to ban swastikas... we as a society need to ask ourselves: do we really want to forget Nazi Germany? Pretend it never happened? Do we really want to live in ignorance and learn nothing from humanitys mistakes? To turn Nazis into nothing but a fictional faction in a flight simulator? apparently so...

Germany has the nerve to ban swastikas... we as a society need to ask ourselves: do we really want to forget Nazi Germany? Pretend it never happened? Do we really want to live in ignorance and learn nothing from humanitys mistakes? To turn Nazis into nothing but a fictional faction in a flight simulator? apparently so...

Clarification via pm :thumbup: