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I don't understand the difference in FEEL between SFM and PFM


fergrim

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Right now I own the Su-27, Su-33, F15c and Ka-50 Blackshark.

 

Now I get the difference between the blackshark and the others in terms of control complexity, but here I am trying to decide if I should just get the rest of the Flaming Cliffs pack because I have a love for migs..

 

However I'm aware that the Mig 29 currently has the least sophisticated flight model of all the aforementioned aircraft and I'm just wondering when it comes to firsthand experience of flying the thing, just how different does it feel?

 

I'm just not sure how heavily I should count the SFM against it when making a purchasing decision.

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They'll most likely upgrade them all eventually, so don't count it at all.

 

Look at price.

 

Which is cheaper, the remaining FC3 planes as single modules, or as part of the FC3 package?

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Most likely, ED will do the same as when the Su-33 got a better flight model, they will most likely release the MiG-29 as a separate module as soon as it has ready a PFM for it.

 

As you already have most of the FC3 planes, I would suggest to wait for the new MiG-29 and in the meantime get the MiG-21 ... I know that it has been a bit neglected by its publisher, but is still a very nice module, very different from the FC3 planes and challenging to master, a real joy of a plane :)

 

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oooh interesting suggestion, I just might check that out.

 

Does the Mig21bis carry A2A missiles or is it just cannons?

 

And yeah at this point actually the remaining FC modules would cost me the same if I purchased them all separately as the entire package would.

 

I'm missing 4, at 10 bucks each, 40. So either way it'll come out the same for me.

 

And yeah I've been looking at the F-5e, the Mig21bis and the Viggen

 

So far I'd say my favorite aircraft, bar none, is the Su-33. I like that it's complex, with strong advantages mitigated by clear shortcomings.

 

I really enjoy putting time into mastering ones that are like a 'diamond in the rough', forcing you to really put time into them for them to reveal just how good they really are.

 

Definitely feel that with the Su-33 and the Blackshark.

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The mig21 has A2A missiles as well as the cannon and A2G stuff.

 

Just remember that this is old tech and not post 90s stuff.

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oooh interesting suggestion, I just might check that out.

 

Does the Mig21bis carry A2A missiles or is it just cannons?

 

 

It carries everything, even a tactical nuclear bomb (that stretches the limits of what DCS can simulate) .. take a look at this video series by Bunyap, where you can gather a better idea of what this plane feels like :)

 

 

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The SFM model that the MiG-29 is still a detailed and comprehensive flight model, you only really notice there's "something not quite right" when you're flying on the edge of the envelope (for example, a hammerhead or other high AoA maneuver) and on the ground taxiing (which is likely a result of the model being discontinued pending update).

 

Ultimately, it doesn't really matter much what it's like because it will sooner or later be replaced, at which point it will be on par with the other aircraft.

 

As for the "control complexity" you're referring to the clickey cockpits, which is an advanced/professional systems model and not directly related to the flight model. The Su-27 is a PFM flight model, just like the Ka-50 or A-10C, it just lacks the more detailed systems modeling.

 

If you like the plane, then fly it and don't worry about it. If you're curious as to the differences in feel, fly the MiG-29 and then fly one of the other aircraft. You don't need to learn the details of the plane in order to turn the engines on and go fly it around. The biggest differences are noticeable during stall/post stall.

 

As for purchasing decision, the MiG-29 isn't available separately and so isn't a significant factor. So if you buy it via Flaming Cliffs 3, you'll also have the Su-27, Su-33, A-10A, and Su-25A.

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So if you buy it via Flaming Cliffs 3, you'll also have the Su-27, Su-33[...]

...which he said he already owns :)

My advice: go for FC3 and fly that MiG-29 if you like the aircraft. SFM doesn't mean it's some childplay! It's still good simulation and you will have a great time flying. No one dared to say bad thing about it back then in LockOn times or insult it with 'arcade' word ;)


Edited by draconus

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I'll say it a million times too, the Su-33 is my favorite aircraft bar none. I've fallen deeply in love with it haha and I sort of dig the idea of trying out its competition for carrier space.

 

And yes, the 'arcade' word is what I'm most anxious about. It's like reading a classic book, if I'm going to be spending time reading I'd like to also be becoming cultured while I do it.

 

And basically my main concern about the mig 29s would be that it's not accurate.

 

I've heard people say that it uses the same equipment as the Su-27 and I wasn't sure if that was because that's what it does in real life or if it was a matter of 're-using assets'

 

But if it's accurate, I would like to try it I think

 

And thanks guy, this is helping. Zhuko, that makes sense, does that mean that its landing isn't very realistic?

 

I've recently been falling in love over and over again with the Ka-50 blackshark so I guess it has me nervous to try even though the aircraft is one that has always interested me.


Edited by fergrim
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The SFM model that the MiG-29 is still a detailed and comprehensive flight model, you only really notice there's "something not quite right" when you're flying on the edge of the envelope (for example, a hammerhead or other high AoA maneuver) and on the ground taxiing (which is likely a result of the model being discontinued pending update).

 

I notice it in the middle of the envelope. You need that AoA to pull a decent ITR and you just can't.

Stall onsets and other fun effects, rudder performance - all easily noticeable.

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I believe the most noticeable difference is way before the so called "edge of the envelope"

 

Take offs and landings

 

You can feel how scripted even the shaking of the cockpit is and when you take off it just detaches from the ground, on and off, no in between, feeling how the hydraulics get pressured under the weight. If you tailstrike, you just explode, nothing dynamic happens.

 

On the landings, the way the aircraft controls under lower speeds with flaps, as if on rails, and when you wheels touch the ground, they just get glued.

 

The MiG29s are the last aircraft in DCS to have SFM, right ?


Edited by Shadow KT

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...The MiG29s are the last aircraft in DCS to have SFM, right ?

 

 

Nop, the C-101 has SFM too ... and I'm not sure about the Su-25A and the A-10A.

 

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Nop, the C-101 has SFM too ... and I'm not sure about the Su-25A and the A-10A.

No, the MiG-29's are the last of the FC SFMs. The Su-25A and A-10A are both either AFM or AFM+.

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@fergrim

The landings and takeoffs are weird, it's either on the ground or not, no inbetween. Like said, it WILL be updated, it just hasn't happened yet.

 

@whoever it was, I am on a phone and can't see the name

The Su-25A and A-10A are long since updated to AFM or better. The A-10A is considered ''AFM+'' because it incorporates some extra data, presumably borrowed from the nearly identical A-10C flight model. The MiG FM has an effect on a lot of conditions, yes, but is most noticeable at the extremes.

 

 

 

 

As for MiG equipment, the two use a lot of the same parta because they came from the same fighter development program. The Sukhoi is the heavy fighter and the mig is the light fighter. That's also why they look so similar.

 

Ingame the MiG has an inferior shorter range radar than the Sukhoi meaning things like the R27ER are wasted potential, but it CAN mount the R77 which is similar to the Aim-120. The MiG has a two stage afterburner which.... isn't really an important distinction lol

 

 

In short OP, it's not that big a deal. If you like it fly it, I do, as do others. It works fine. It will be updated eventually anyway.

 

 

It's an OLD fm, not a BAD fm.

 

 

Also, if you wait, it will doubtless be released as a standalone, too, when the time comes


Edited by zhukov032186

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Thanks a lot for pointing it out, I wasnt aware that non-clickable aircrafts were divided among four different flight dynamics models, lets hope that the MiG-29 is updated soon to the same level as the Su-27, I can hardly wait :)

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
I like that it's complex, with strong advantages mitigated by clear shortcomings.

 

I really enjoy putting time into mastering ones that are like a 'diamond in the rough', forcing you to really put time into them for them to reveal just how good they really are.

 

If you like that, then I'd recommend the Viggen. :thumbup:

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what's the difference bewtween AFM and PFM?

Which one is the most realistic?

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AFM is just a marketing term used by 3rd party developers, it is not much different than an EFM, which is basically an AFM but w/ out advanced navigation and radar.

 

1) AFM is not 3rd party marketing thing, it is definition by Eagle Dynamics.

2) What does navigation and radar have to do with the flight modeling?

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