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DCS World 2 and Steam Fragmentation


russiandivxclub

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I really hate to have 2 separate DCS World installations and accounts but I think I have no choice. From what I understand DCS World 2 engine is so much better than 1.5 that anyone should use it instead of 1.5 but being I am a Steam user I can't. It's not available for me. I wonder why. Steam have nice BETA options that we all use for latest 1.5.x open beta but there is no 2.0.

 

Is there a reason why we don't have 2.0 in the steam and are forced to have stand alone client ? I mean it's really no matter if purchases you make on one works with another but from what I see they're not. I mean If I purchase a module on Steam it'll work on my stand alone but if I purchase something here it will NOT work on steam , well that sad.

 

Anyhow anyone have any idea on what DCS World 2 will be available on steam for purchase ? And IF there is no date I guess my only question is this because I am not clear on it. All current aircrafts and missions and everything I have on 1.5, will it work on 2.0 ? LEt's say Nice SU25T missions, will I be able to fly them on 2.0 with updated engine ? Because I am looking to upgrade only for a reason because from what I understand my current 2 way SLI of 980 card does nothing for a game and in 2.0 they're actually in use vs. having CPU do all heavy lifting.

 

Thank you guys !

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Why use Steam for DCS?

 

Standalone gets updates more frequently, you can run whatever and multiple versions, you get the modules earlier and if you really really want some of the Steam features, you can just add it as a Non-Steam game into Steam anyway.

 

To answer your questions on why: There's only one release version of DCS World. That version is currently 1.5.xx.

 

2.0 is an alpha version for terrain module testing.

 

You'll get 2.5 at some point when the great merge happens and 2.5 becomes the Release version. Hopefully later this year.

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Steam allows only two different branches.

Steam allows more than two branches.

 

For example Kerbal Space Program has release and 3 'beta' versions to test pre-release and/or support older mod's.

  • release [opt out of beta]
  • pre-release - 1.2.9
  • previous - 1.0.5
  • previous - 1.1.3

 

However Steam has a refund policy that allows users to refund alpha/early access software that fails to meet it's promises, regardless of hours played in the 'beta' version (IIRC enforced by consumer laws that expect goods 'fit for purpose/as described').

 

IMHO when developers manage expectations, early access is a good thing, however beta build refunds are open to abuse from buyers, hence ED's possible caution in terms of abuse from and support of a less sophisticated user base.

 

Edit: I'm not sure if Steam support's beta DLC's, which may be a bigger issue for map packs/modules and consumer law ?


Edited by Ramsay

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  • 2 weeks later...

I also saw similar behaviour for Factorio. Right now you have three different versions for download there, via the "Betas" tab. Also when they released the last major update (0.14) they had basically all minor changes as seperate downloads, which they put out in a short time after the major release and I expect a similar behaviour when they release 0.15 in the upcoming weeks. It was around 10 different beta versions.

But on these forums here I've seen it beeing mentioned, that ED have stated they do not release multiple early access versions because it would not be possible with Steam. Maybe it would be a good idea that those people, who claim this to be true, would provide a link to an official ED source with said statement. I assume ED has good reasons for not bringing DCS 2.0.x to Steam but a restriction of the amount of possible early access versions might not be it.

 

On possible restrictions for DLC during early access by Steam:

I also don't believe that to be true, given that Studio Wildcard could/can sell Scorched Earth as DLC while Ark is still in early access.

 

Furthermore, I'm not in favor of people trying to advertise the DCS standalone version with "gets updates more frequently" and the like. Those more frequent updates are related to the early access versions for testing, the stable gets the same updates via Steam, just a bit later.

However, using an alpha or beta version of a game means that there are bugs to be expected and the developers want feedback on them. It is meant for people who are willingly playing, possibly broken, games to report the issues to the developer to be fixed. It does not help the developer if people play the test versions because of faster updates, without properly reporting issues.

A better way could be to point out that the standalone version has more sales, in fact every week. If this is a good strategy, I don't know. I guess it is not, given the threads in this forum of people asking for sales of different modules.

But that would be another discussion.

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Anyhow anyone have any idea on what DCS World 2 will be available on steam for purchase ?

 

 

You probably meant "when" ... as I understand, DCS 2.0 will never be available on Steam ... what will happen is that (hopefully) later this year both version 1.5 and 2.1 will "merge" into a single version: DCS 2.5 ... and that version is the one that will make it into Steam.

 

 

By the way, 2.1 is the next version of 2.0, that will appear at the end of May to support the Normandy map, in adition to Nevada.

 

 

All current aircrafts and missions and everything I have on 1.5, will it work on 2.0 ?

 

 

Yes, all current aircraft will work on 2.5 ... also Missions and Campaigns will work too, but they have to be used on the Map they were designed for. If you have a Campaign that currently runs on the Caucasus Map, it will not run in Nevada or Normandy.

 

 

Because I am looking to upgrade only for a reason because from what I understand my current 2 way SLI of 980 card does nothing for a game and in 2.0 they're actually in use vs. having CPU do all heavy lifting.

 

 

In my opinion, upgrading DCS just to have a graphics card fully used isnt really a good enough reason .., and since 2.5 is still several months away, you are probably better off selling the two 980 and replacing them with a single 1080 or 1080ti

 

 

... on my case, I want to upgrade to 2.5 to have more Maps available to fly and just a single saved games location, without the hassle of having two separate versions of the game (with two separate control configs, logbook and preferences).

 

 

Best regards.

 

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Just a small update to my previous post, to provide a source.

 

As one can see in the attached screenshot, right now Factorio has a few versions on Steam.

All the 0.15 versions are beta (obviously) and have been uploaded during the last four days.

 

 

SteamMultipleBetaVersions.png.5eead2ed4a0aabdef4b37addf8730599.png

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It doesn't really matter what other companies do. I am sure ED knows what they can and cannot do on Steam.

 

Either way, DCS v2 is not available on Steam and it really does not matter why. It is what it is.

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  • 2 weeks later...
ed boyz just want every steamer use standalone edition,

 

Of course ED would prefer that. Revenue is important and Steam takes a significant cut from every transaction.

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It is a trade-off. Marketing costs money and Steam provides a level of exposure that is pretty hard to beat. That is why I said prefer.

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  • ED Team
Steam allows more than two branches.

 

For example Kerbal Space Program has release and 3 'beta' versions to test pre-release and/or support older mod's.

  • release [opt out of beta]
  • pre-release - 1.2.9
  • previous - 1.0.5
  • previous - 1.1.3

 

You see, all the versions are still 1.x in their case.

Steam 'betas' do not support structural differences between versions, nor different sets DLCs.

Should we upload DCS 2.0 with, say, Nevada into Steam as a separate 'beta', it will create

a huge mess for those who will switch between release and alpha version. And this not discussing

the question of which version of Nevada will go into 1.5 Steam installations of those who bought it. And it will.

Also Steam does not support parallel installs of different beta's.

This is really a Pandora's box, believe me.

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You see, all the versions are still 1.x in their case.

Steam 'betas' do not support structural differences between versions, nor different sets DLCs.

Should we upload DCS 2.0 with, say, Nevada into Steam as a separate 'beta', it will create

a huge mess for those who will switch between release and alpha version. And this not discussing

the question of which version of Nevada will go into 1.5 Steam installations of those who bought it. And it will.

Also Steam does not support parallel installs of different beta's.

This is really a Pandora's box, believe me.

 

This^.

 

I think if ED wanted to included Alpha Branches the Only option would be to stop sending complete Builds, and Change Steam Distribution to Installer Only, The Same Way MMO's have been doing.

 

You Buy Licenses from Steam, but when you install, it launches the Software's Own Launcher which installs, downloads, and manages files from their server instead of steam's.

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  • 2 weeks later...

i am really concerned with the current situation.

 

i have all my modules on steam, since i enjoy using steam and would like to continue doing so.

i think about switching to standalone though, despite my preference for steam:

 

the reasoning is, that right now, i had no problem waiting a bit longer for a module, since it meant, that i got it in a more advanced state of development.

now with dcs expanding its modules not only to aircrafts and maps, but also AI assets and systems like aircraft carriers, i fear that this could heavily fragment multiplayer. in such a case i would have switched to standalone, but with the new policy i have to decide right now, if i should make the transition.

 

at this point i really demand a statement from eagle dynamics, not only concerning their commitment to steam, but also their plans concerning future system/asset modules and ways to handle availabitly/compatibility on both platform to ensure minimum MP fragmentation over problems like missing assets (carrier etc.).

 

i don't want a justification, but just some official clarification on their plans concerning my issues, to help me make a decision concerning the platform.

 

and please no discussion on why i should go standalone anyways: if feasable, i want to stay on steam and will only switch if there is clarification through ED, that makes me think going standalone would be better despite me not necessarily wanting to.


Edited by twistking
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...i fear that this could heavily fragment multiplayer. in such a case i would have switched to standalone, ...

 

What does MP fragmentation have to do with using Steam or standalone? Both have access to the same servers.

 

at this point i really demand...

 

Btw, demanding something from ED isn't particularly productive.

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  • ED Team

Stay with steam, ED wont be dropping it, they have just committed the Mirage to it using steam keys only, and now all future modules will be the same when released on steam.

 

At the moment ED can not use different testing builds on steam so only the beta is currently available and not the alpha.

 

When we get 2.5 and the builds are merged this wont be a problem, sure early access modules take a little longer to reach steam and I understand that can be frustrating for some, but feedback suggest this is the better way to handle early access on steam.

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What does MP fragmentation have to do with using Steam or standalone? Both have access to the same servers.

as i said, i have no problem waiting a little bit longer for a flyable aircraft, since if a friend already has it through standalone, we could still fly together (me in another aircraft obviously). but atm we don't really know how system/asset modules will be handled. f.e. one would probably need to own the carrier module, if one wants to play with friends who want to use said module in a mission.

so we would continue to have these fragmentations even after "the merge".

to be more precise: fragmentation should not get worse, but with the system modules (carrier etc.) coming, there might still be fragmentation even after "the merge" and having the possibility to still switch would be great, if that fragmentation start becoming bothering at some point.

 

Btw, demanding something from ED isn't particularly productive.

oh, come on. i "demand" nothing more than a statement to an important change in policy, which, as of yet, has only been communicated through a footnote in a newsletter.

in the country i live in, that is probably even illegal.:smilewink:

(we have ze best consumer protection, ja?!) was a joke, did not imply actually suing ED.

 

When we get 2.5 and the builds are merged this wont be a problem, sure early access modules take a little longer to reach steam and I understand that can be frustrating for some, but feedback suggest this is the better way to handle early access on steam.

yes, i understand that. but will ED be able to implent modules like the carrier or other future system/content modules without version fragmentation?

i am quite excited about the nevada map, but did not really bother with standalone / early access, since when i started with dcs a year ago, it seemed, that "the merge" was just around the corner. turned out, it wasn't.

 

If new type of modules introduced similar delays, that would really be a letdown.


Edited by twistking
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  • 5 months later...

Okay there is light at the end of the tunnel and i put fate into that,

 

I contacted the support desk and they assured me that at some point it will be possible to use the steam login in dcs world so all your content will be available in one version at some point in time.

 

They cant bring star force to steam but they can bring steam to dcs world as the API's are already available in the steam version (all they basically have to do is link the dcs account to the steam account and voila.) , I am a programmer myself and this really cant be that complicated.

And I am sure ED does not like this situation either.

 

I figure steam doen not like starforce

 

2.1 is still a alpha and 1.5 is in beta sort of so give things time to settle.

 

I put fate in ED and bought some modules in the sale because I like the big effort put into this dcs project.

 

Give things time , DCS is a big project to manage and I do see progress

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  • 2 weeks later...
Okay there is light at the end of the tunnel and i put fate into that,

 

I contacted the support desk and they assured me that at some point it will be possible to use the steam login in dcs world so all your content will be available in one version at some point in time.

 

They cant bring star force to steam but they can bring steam to dcs world as the API's are already available in the steam version (all they basically have to do is link the dcs account to the steam account and voila.) , I am a programmer myself and this really cant be that complicated.

And I am sure ED does not like this situation either.

 

I figure steam doen not like starforce

 

2.1 is still a alpha and 1.5 is in beta sort of so give things time to settle.

 

I put fate in ED and bought some modules in the sale because I like the big effort put into this dcs project.

 

Give things time , DCS is a big project to manage and I do see progress

 

This is actually good to hear. Now if we could just get pre-purchases on Steam....

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