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Big Helicopters


Prowler111

Big Helicopters  

548 members have voted

  1. 1. Big Helicopters

    • Yes
      453
    • No
      95


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I think there will be a genuine interest for whatever you decide to make for DCS, that doesn't mean a big choppa is the most anticipated or cost-effective DCS addon (sales versus complexity).

 

Says the guy that voted no.

 

I can honestly say that, for me, the CH-53E is one of the most desired airframes to be modeled for DCS and I can tell from many of the postings in this thread, I'm not the only one that feels that way. As for cost effectiveness, that is for the developer (be it RAZBAM, BST, LNS, et cetera) to decide. The risk is considered high because this is relatively uncharted territory in relation to development in the DCS engine. The low amount of weapons and dedicated support role are not everyones "cup of tea", so to speak. The closest metric they have to determine the viability of a heavy lift module will be the Mi-8MTv2 and UH-1H... both of which have rockets and guns in their loadouts but the heavy lifters will have only the door mounted guns for defensive suppression fire.

The pew pew shoot'em up guys won't like it much but the guys that enjoy just flying, learning systems and accomplishing support missions will enjoy the heck out of a module like this just like I see them doing in the UH-1 and Mi-8 in multiplayer. Flight dynamics wise, DCS perfect engine for a heavy lift helo module. Progress does need to be made in incorporating realistic cargo loads and slingloads into the base DCS engine but I don't consider that to be a blocking issue due to the current CTLD script in use as a stand in for that feature. As Cibit astutely pointed out earlier in this thread... "If you build it they will come".

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Truly superior pilots are those that use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills.

 

If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

 

"If at first you don't succeed, Carrier Landings are not for you!"

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I can honestly say that, for me, the CH-53E is one of the most desired airframes to be modeled for DCS and I can tell from many of the postings in this thread, I'm not the only one that feels that way.

 

And what if it will be a Puma, not a CH-53E? Still one of the most desired airframes, or would you prefer AH-1, A-6, MiG-23 or something along those lines?

 

Besides, you've already mentioned that there are UH-1 and Mi-8 that can perform similar tasks. By the time RAZBAM makes their own heli, there will also be at least Bo-105 and Mi-24 in game. Neither of them can carry as much payload as a big helicopter, but every one can carry "some" payload or infantry, and at the same time have some weapons to make the things more interesting when you get bored flying A-B.

 

Sure, "If you build it they will come", but how many people would actually prefer an unarmed machine in combat simulator (not counting door gunners), given the choice?


Edited by some1

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Have to say, I would have zero interest in a CH-53 for DCS.

 

I like the aircraft, and have two in FSX/P3D - but I don't see the need for one in DCS. Not enough to pay the sort of DCS module prices for it, anyway.

 

I'ma Puma fan, too - but tbh if a similar helicopter was definitely on the cards, I would like the NH-90. More multi-role and has a reasonable capacity, while packing more of a punch, too. Best of both worlds.

 

*Also depends on what you class as "big" - for me, Pumas are not big, they are medium - I worked and travelled in them and Chinooks for years. Chinook would come into the "bigger" or "large" description for me, as would the mentioned H-53 and also stuff like the S-64.


Edited by Brixmis

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...

Sure, "If you build it they will come", but how many people would actually prefer an unarmed machine in combat simulator (not counting door gunners), given the choice?

For this reason to a good compromise with a higher sales potential might be a heavy lifter but not necessary the biggest one, still one that could be equipped with more weapons than just the door gunners. Something close to the current Mi-8 or Huey but just heavier. If I'm not wrong such example could be Battlehawk or Puma. Some other maybe?

As far as CH-53 is just iconic and I would personally buy it even for double price of a standard module, we need to be careful what we're wishing for. The last think that we should wish is a developer investing in a module that would not bring the cost back. This would create case after which we could potentially say god bay to any other helicopter modules for long time.

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Sure, "If you build it they will come", but how many people would actually prefer an unarmed machine in combat simulator (not counting door gunners), given the choice?

 

Well we don't need to prefer it over another machine, we just need to buy it. :D

 

Personally, I'd be incredibly interested in the behavior of such a big helicopter. How easy is it to fly? How does it feel? How precise is it? Can I become a good pilot in it?

 

I already enjoy hauling virtual cargo, dropping off and picking up troops in the Huey (granted, I enjoy the door gunners at work, especially with Miniguns). CH-53, CH-47, Puma, these would be new toys and I would totally buy each of them just to get my hands on the controls and to learn how to fly such a beast. And each of them would be a perfect toy to fly the exact same type of missions I already enjoy in the Huey. While you might argue that the chopper doesn't bring anything new to the table then, I'd counter that by saying that I just enjoy flying new airframes, especially the whirlybirds. ;)

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And what if it will be a Puma, not a CH-53E? Still one of the most desired airframes, or would you prefer AH-1, A-6, MiG-23 or something along those lines?

 

Besides, you've already mentioned that there are UH-1 and Mi-8 that can perform similar tasks. By the time RAZBAM makes their own heli, there will also be at least Bo-105 and Mi-24 in game. Neither of them can carry as much payload as a big helicopter, but every one can carry "some" payload or infantry, and at the same time have some weapons to make the things more interesting when you get bored flying A-B.

 

Sure, "If you build it they will come", but how many people would actually prefer an unarmed machine in combat simulator (not counting door gunners), given the choice?

 

Puma is not a large heavy lift helo and not anywhere near to being on my list of desired airframes. The only aircraft currently in game that was anywhere near my most desired list is the A-10... and I have everything except the C-101 of which I couldn't bring myself to purchase due to the inclusion of unrealistic weapons capabilities and the fact that I already have the Hawk and L-39. That being said, I would still buy the SA-330 if someone made it just to tinker with it and see how it works. The Mi-8 and UH-1 would have the metrics required to decide whether or not to go forward with development... provided RAZBAM has access to the numbers for them. Hopefully BST should, even though they have gone quiet on the subject, have the AH-1 out as well by the time a RAZBAM heavy lifter is released and there will also be many other modules released by then as well including the A-6E.

 

As for how many would buy a helo armed only with door gunners, look at the poll numbers and that will give you a reasonable expectation that it will sell in pretty good numbers.

 

 

 

Well we don't need to prefer it over another machine, we just need to buy it. :D

 

Personally, I'd be incredibly interested in the behavior of such a big helicopter. How easy is it to fly? How does it feel? How precise is it? Can I become a good pilot in it?

 

I already enjoy hauling virtual cargo, dropping off and picking up troops in the Huey (granted, I enjoy the door gunners at work, especially with Miniguns). CH-53, CH-47, Puma, these would be new toys and I would totally buy each of them just to get my hands on the controls and to learn how to fly such a beast. And each of them would be a perfect toy to fly the exact same type of missions I already enjoy in the Huey. While you might argue that the chopper doesn't bring anything new to the table then, I'd counter that by saying that I just enjoy flying new airframes, especially the whirlybirds. ;)

 

+1 :thumbup:

This is the point. Plus, we would be fleshing out the stable of flyable airframes to truly make DCS the sandbox that ED have envisioned.

Truly superior pilots are those that use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills.

 

If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

 

"If at first you don't succeed, Carrier Landings are not for you!"

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I'd fly the CH-53 on resupply runs and troop insertions. There are people like me I bet, folks who are a bit intimidated by the awesome and complex weapons systems or threat detectors on some of these aircraft. Flying the CH-53 under escort would be great for me. I already like flying the Huey, and while I like jumping in with rockets and such it's just fun to tool around and fly well.

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As for how many would buy a helo armed only with door gunners, look at the poll numbers and that will give you a reasonable expectation that it will sell in pretty good numbers.

 

 

 

Well, the problem with this poll can be seen even on this page. You want a CH-53 and wrote:

 

Puma is not a large heavy lift helo and not anywhere near to being on my list of desired airframes.

 

Brixmis prefers Puma and wrote:

Have to say, I would have zero interest in a CH-53 for DCS.

 

So even though you both voted yes, he won't buy a CH-53 while you will buy a Puma only as a curiosity. I wonder how many people who voted "yes" had one particular model in mind and didn't even consider that Razbam would do something else that also falls into the same category of aircraft. And before you argue that Puma is not a heavy helo, it has been mentioned by Razbam next to CH53 in the original post.


Edited by some1

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So even though you both voted yes, he won't buy a CH-53 while you will buy a Puma only as a curiosity. I wonder how many people who voted "yes" had one particular model in mind and didn't even consider that Razbam would do something else that also falls into the same category of aircraft. And before you argue that Puma is not a heavy helo, it has been mentioned by Razbam next to CH53 in the original post.

 

How many people do you think bought the Mi-8 because it was the one helo that they wanted above all others or for its combat capability? I'd venture to say not that many. My hunch is that many virtual pilots, especially the true rotorhead types, will buy any helo that is released. That is why the metrics for the Mi-8 and UH-1 are important.

 

Also, I did a quick and dirty count and of the people who posted about 25 stated that they wanted the H-53, 13 wanted the H-47, six wanted the H-46 (also a medium like the Puma), and 12 wanted the Puma/Super Puma... many of whom wanted multiples of the choices listed.

Truly superior pilots are those that use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills.

 

If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

 

"If at first you don't succeed, Carrier Landings are not for you!"

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There is actually a ton of problems and different biases with polls such as this. For example, somebody with an interest in big helicopters is significantly more likely to open this thread in the first place than somebody who has zero interest. Also there is no mention what are the alternatives. If you ask me would I rather get "new content X" or not get it, my answer is more likely to be yes than if you offered several alternative "new content Ys" and "new content Zs". But I digress.

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Of course polls like this are pretty much always a bit flawed and of course it isn't safe to assume that everybody who voted to have an interest would line up to buy the module in question right away. There are a lot of factors in the final decisions on all parts, but I think it's safe to take away from it that there are quite a few people who would be interested in a 'support role' helicopter for various reasons.

Either way the module would not be released next week, there is some time in development and I'm sure DCS itself is going to evolve further during that time.

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I wonder how many people who voted "yes" had one particular model in mind and didn't even consider that Razbam would do something else that also falls into the same category of aircraft.

Probably a similar number of people who voted "yes" thinking that it means more modules instead of more realistically taking up time that could be spent on something else that more people want.

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Probably a similar number of people who voted "yes" thinking that it means more modules instead of more realistically taking up time that could be spent on something else that more people want.

 

What people want isn't always what people get.

 

If a developer goes "do you want X?", and you reply with "No, I want Y instead", it doesn't make Y more likely if the developer wasn't going to do it in the first place, just means we will/will not get X.


Edited by Buzzles
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They will make something though, and that's why I voted no. The choice is never X or nothing, there is always an implied Y that could be made instead. I would like an opposing pair of heavy lift choppers, but they are a lower priority to me than the A-6, AT-29, AV-8B, Mirage III, and a ton of other 1970's to present combat machines. Razbam already has years worth of projects at various stages of development, adding more is counterproductive.

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Prowler,

 

As much as I would rather see you guys put out the A-7, A-6 or Tucano - in that order, I would definitely be a first day customer for the CH-53!! D or E would make no difference to me but if you're really going to do it, could I make one little suggestion? Please think about taking the C-130 and making an AI refueler out of it like the IL-76M. :pilotfly:

 

Actually, I think ED should do that anyway for several other reasons.

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Glass cockpit, refueling capability, hellfire missiles, depending of the version a Black Hawk would be awesome and really fill a void !

 

And practically as complex and expensive to make as an Apache...

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