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A wing (missing) and a prayer....


NineLine

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  • ED Team

For all those of you that have experience the miracle of flight, with all or most of your wings missing, please try and save a track of it, or even reference a YouTube video (with control display if possible). Please keep the discussion in this thread to a minumum, I know there are examples of real world flight with missing chinks of aircraft, but we would like to see if we can confirm a bug of some sort, or if all real world pilots just bail too fast.

 

Thanks in advance guys!

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Ok lost half of both wings on the new SU33 PFM was still flying but very fast , lack of drag etc was informed I was no longer on f10 map, someone shot me again endex. Also previously lost half a wing on an F5 flight model was actually kind of cool if it were not for the fact it was visually on fire I would have found it quite believable, landed the Aircraft with full right aileron and had to use a little rudder at 190kts. I had done a low speed handling check so found out prior to my approach that it would do an uncontrollable left roll at 180kts. Never flew a T38 with half a wing but if it were not for the fact I could see the flames on the F5 I would have found it quite believable, plus it was a fun challenge to get it on the ground. Sorry no tracks as this was in the last month. Not sure what was going on with the hyds on the short wing. The F5 and SU33 cases were however completely different from the Hawk in as much as I could feel the differences on the controls when the control surfaces were damaged. Personally I would love to get rid of the flames and leave the flight model alone ( definitely in the F5 case insufficient flight time on the new SU33)

 

PS IRL why the hell would you stay with it , the tax payer can buy a new one and you only have one life. ( unlike DCS )

1cf4083d2b01631dd68f53ab5b11f3ee.jpgcfa923561413895114720cc00bd18ff7.jpg

 

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Edited by WindyTX
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Good day, SiTh,

 

I've put this to the test and managed to regain control over an Su-33 with both of its wings snapped off and land at an airfield 3 times. The total amount of tries tallies 12 attempts. I've attached two tracks, and one where I gain control over the spin, but not full control of the aircraft like in the other two shown attempts. Some observations and speculation in the spoiler ahead.

 

 

 

 

- The roll authority is still pretty good, despite the ailerons/flaperons missing. It is more than what the differential stabilators would led one to believe.

- The cockpit flaps indicator responds to user flaps command by indicating wether they are dropped or not. But they do not seem to affect the flight model

- The lack of wings do seem to affect the flight model, as having the AoA indexer in the green means having an indicated airspeed of around 450km/h.

- Losing the wings ment losing hydraulics 100% of the time. However, the wheel brake instrument still registers a power input of up to 200kg/cm^2, the same maximum pressure as under normal conditions.

- Despite that, wheel braking is heavily reduced. Only when applying differential braking does one notice the effects.

- An observation is made regarding the RCTRL-ENTER controls indication. When the limitations remained narrow, gaining control over the aircraft was not possible, even when spin was brought under control. When the limitations are wide, control over the wingless Su-33 is possible, good enough to land one intact.

 

imKPwRq.jpg

p8sTX2K

p8sTX2K.jpg

p8sTX2K

- The controls limitation is independant from the "ASC disconnect" feature. It remains wide or narrow regardless of its state.

- Although speculative, there seems to be a connection between the chance of the problem occuring and the AoA of the aircraft when control is re-established. The lower the AoA, the more likely it seems to occur.

- the problem was reproducable in the Su-27 under the exact same conditions.

- The version stamp this has been reproduced on is:

 

  
"branch": "openbeta",
"version": "1.5.7.9891.374",
"timestamp": "20170922-103418",

- modus operandi to get the problem to occur is using the ASC disconnect at high speeds (>750km/h) and requesting an excessive amount of pitch.

 

 

 

hope this proves helpful! have a nice day :)

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whoneedswingsanyway2.trk

spintodeath.trk


Edited by Sryan
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  • ED Team

 

PS IRL why the hell would you stay with it , the tax payer can buy a new one and you only have one life. ( unlike DCS )

 

I do think that is part of the issue, most RL pilots would be diving out of the cockpit with some of the hits we take in DCS, in DCS we just say...

 

hold_my_beer.jpg

 

Thanks for the info!

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Good day, SiTh,

 

I've put this to the test and managed to regain control over an Su-33 with both of its wings snapped off and land at an airfield 3 times. The total amount of tries tallies 12 attempts. I've attached two tracks, and one where I gain control over the spin, but not full control of the aircraft like in the other two shown attempts. Some observations and speculation in the spoiler ahead.

 

 

 

 

- The roll authority is still pretty good, despite the ailerons/flaperons missing. It is more than what the differential stabilators would led one to believe.

- The cockpit flaps indicator responds to user flaps command by indicating wether they are dropped or not. But they do not seem to affect the flight model

- The lack of wings do seem to affect the flight model, as having the AoA indexer in the green means having an indicated airspeed of around 450km/h.

- Losing the wings ment losing hydraulics 100% of the time. However, the wheel brake instrument still registers a power input of up to 200kg/cm^2, the same maximum pressure as under normal conditions.

- Despite that, wheel braking is heavily reduced. Only when applying differential braking does one notice the effects.

- An observation is made regarding the RCTRL-ENTER controls indication. When the limitations remained narrow, gaining control over the aircraft was not possible, even when spin was brought under control. When the limitations are wide, control over the wingless Su-33 is possible, good enough to land one intact.

 

imKPwRq.jpg

p8sTX2K

p8sTX2K.jpg

p8sTX2K

- The controls limitation is independant from the "ASC disconnect" feature. It remains wide or narrow regardless of its state.

- Although speculative, there seems to be a connection between the chance of the problem occuring and the AoA of the aircraft when control is re-established. The lower the AoA, the more likely it seems to occur.

- the problem was reproducable in the Su-27 under the exact same conditions.

- The version stamp this has been reproduced on is:

 

  
"branch": "openbeta",
"version": "1.5.7.9891.374",
"timestamp": "20170922-103418",

- modus operandi to get the problem to occur is using the ASC disconnect at high speeds (>750km/h) and requesting an excessive amount of pitch.

 

 

 

hope this proves helpful! have a nice day :)

 

If you say 'both wings' it's just a kitchen science speech. Instead of it you could plot the aircraft and calculate the area of the lost parts of the wing. Then recall that the total wing area of the plane is 62 m2, and the plane shows FL up to 1.6 relative to this gross area...

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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If you say 'both wings' it's just a kitchen science speech. Instead of it you could plot the aircraft and calculate the area of the lost parts of the wing. Then recall that the total wing area of the plane is 62 m2, and the plane shows FL up to 1.6 relative to this gross area...

 

Wing area isnt much good when the lost wing area includes our control surfaces though ;)

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This was experienced in the Open Beta version of the Su-33. Lost both wings in an 'over G' then recovered from a uncontrollable roll, trimmed her out and landed many km's away at around 460 kph without any appreciable loss of control. Not sure if this still applies in the release version of DCS.

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There are a lot of instances where the DFCS has taken care of a lot of missing control surface irl.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Had I known a thread like this existed I would have better documented this sortie. Good ol' A-10C held together long enough to get me back to base. Damaged gear drug me into the grass where I could finally pop out to an exterior view to see the damage. Had no idea of the full extent of damage until this point. Better lucky than good they say! :thumbup:

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Mad_Max2 - go here C:\Users\USERNAME\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Tracks and attach the track of that mission you played to get the screenshot.

 

That sort of damage is exactly what ED wants to investigate.

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al531246- Unfortunately I didn't save the track file to this mission. The screenshot I took was "live" in mission and not from replaying the track. I double checked my track files just to be sure. Will make sure to save any similar incidents in the future.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I know there are examples of real world flight with missing chinks of aircraft, but we would like to see if we can confirm a bug of some sort, or if all real world pilots just bail too fast.

 

Watched F-15 documentary. Israeli pilot landed F-15 on one wing. Said after that had he seen the damage (masked by spraying fuel) he would have absolutely bailed. There may be a bug... but there might also be some truth to your real world pilots bailing too fast comment. Just human nature to assume a plane damaged that bad is unable to fly...

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is a video of me flying a wingless F-15. Me and my buddy were fighting one another and messing around online when he hit me with a missile and thought he killed me, but I lived. This is when I just started playing DCS so I did not even have trackir. So it was a high point at the time to land this thing.

 

2017-11-13.thumb.png.21becccd0690fd14a69582be3a67e90c.png

1893024566_2017-11-13(1).thumb.png.39f69b069c494d4e0414ed0b831bbbed.png

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  • 1 month later...
  • ED Team

This video is a fake too...

 

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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If you wanna talk about aircraft missing large parts of a wing and continuing to fly you just have to look at the skyraider at Duxford a few years ago that had a mid-air with a Mustang and landed afterward.

 

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That IAF F-15 winless landing is fake.

 

No its not... The History Channel edited a video of a normal F15 landing to represent the IAF aircraft incident and thats what you'll find online. That is CLEARLY a reproduction but the real event happened.

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The whole story is fake. As somewhere mentioned, incident occured as ground collision with static object and not while airborne. No tyre can sustaint that landing speed mentioned in vid. Also, no wind tunnel test performed under that case by MD ever to validate that case publicly. Also, pilots behaviour while telling that story is very suspicious as there is no actual action vid recorded.

 

 

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The whole story is fake. As somewhere mentioned, incident occured as ground collision with static object and not while airborne. No tyre can sustaint that landing speed mentioned in vid. Also, no wind tunnel test performed under that case by MD ever to validate that case publicly. Also, pilots behaviour while telling that story is very suspicious as there is no actual action vid recorded.

 

Are you a recognized military aviation expert ? Otherwise I can't believe you and discard all the recognized journals, military experts, documentaries... that said this story was true.

Also where did you get that it collided with as static object ?

 

Please provide a reliable source that this is a fake story.

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The whole story is fake. As somewhere mentioned, incident occured as ground collision with static object and not while airborne. No tyre can sustain that landing speed mentioned in vid. Also, no wind tunnel test performed under that case by MD ever to validate that case publicly. Also, pilots behaviour while telling that story is very suspicious as there is no actual action vid recorded.

 

Think about the physics involved in hitting something on the ground fast/hard enough for it to rip the wing pretty much clean off without destroying/damaging the rest of the aircraft. As soon as you hit something on the right hand side wing its going to pivot the aircraft around that wing and thanks to the UC arrangement of the F-15 it will end up tipping the aircraft over and roll the aircraft up into a ball. Also the right rear stab was not damaged, so whatever it it hit went through the wing at the wing root and then somehow missed the stab? Yeah ok..

 

I'm sure the tyres weren't particularly happy after a 250 knot touchdown, and I'm sure they wouldn't be guaranteed to hold by the manufacturer but thats why these things are designed with large safety margins. There are plenty of tyres out there that survived 180-200 knot landings like the ones for the Century series fighters like the F101, F104, F105... In fact the no flap landing speed for the F104 is 230 knots and the landing speed for the Tornado is 210 knots if they have to land it with the wings swept.

 

Regarding MD, I'm sure they did investigate how it was possible but why would a company release that information publicly? They are under no obligation to 'Prove' that something happened.

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Correction, something on the ground hit plane's wing - but well never know that for sure :huh:.

 

Read: https://theaviationist.com/2014/09/15/f-15-lands-with-one-wing/

Listen:

 

Quote from article: "As told by Easley, it was only after he turned back to shake his instructor’s hand, that Zivi discovered that he had flown and landed without a wing!"

Quote from video by pilot: "I told my wingmen to inspect me.."

 

Landing at 260 knots (~300mph, ~480kmh)?

https://www.quora.com/What-aircraft-has-the-highest-landing-speed

 

Blackbird has special ceramic coated (white) tires for its landing speed, X-15 skids..

 

Tires: https://www.goodyearaviation.com/tires/tire-line-details.html?search=all&sortorder=70

 

F-15 - 200 knots max landing speed..

 

“According to an early edition of 'the Guinness book of world records' the X15 also holds the record for fastest landing speed at 242 mph (~210knots) compared with 210 mph for the space shuttle.”

 

MD: "After the mishap, McDonnell Douglas, inquired by the Israeli Air Force, affirmed that it was impossible for an F-15 to land with one wing only,.."

 

Damage report by picture: Elevator and vertical fin are untouched even they (F15 & A4) hit each other belly to belly? Ripping would trow wing up and back as flight speed vs proximity collision speed gives advantage to flight speed vector meaning that ripped wing (if made by glass) would surely slam into vertical fin and even elevator.. but no damage there. Debris holes?

 

14.jpg

 

So.. get real guys, I know it sounds great but.. no way. :music_whistling:

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