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Why does RAZBAM ignore the sound quality of their modules?


112th_Rossi

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This is an open post, to which I hope RAZBAM will take note of and perhaps do something about in future updates of their products. And yes I know, early access blah blah, but the point remains...

 

For the Harrier, the M2000C and now the MiG-19, the overall quality and immersion of the sounds of these modules is, to be frank, poor.

 

When creating simulations we are aiming in general for something to be as realistic as possible. Because a simulation cannot fully realise the sensation of the real thing, the things we can simulate accurately have to be all the more realistic. For example, while flying a jet in DCS we do not have the sensation of movement, nothing much can be done about that, we do not have the sense of smell, again nothing can be done. But we do have other senses we can use. Sight and Sound. For the former we can employ great graphics and rendering to make things look as real as possible and RAZBAM have done an excellent job in this respect. However, the next sense, sound is whats immersion breaking. In the absence of some of the major senses, these two have to be extra special.

 

As it stands, the sounds of the Harrier are 'OK' however, the main engine sound has a distinct seam at where the loop occurs. This sounds horrible. Also, the start up and in cockpit ambient sounds are really bad too. In the end I created a mod to improve this ( https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3300537/ ).

 

The M2000C is almost as bad, terrible start up ambiance, some kind of sonic boom sound when the afterburner ignites (which is not realistic at all). As for the MiG19, well, ok it's early but it's still bad.

 

As stated before, the importance of creating immersive atmosphere relies heavily on exciting the senses available to use in the simulation. It is not an after thought. The simulation goes above just the systems and modelling, its the way it feels. At the moment, RAZBAM lack behind the likes of ED (F18 etc) and HB (F14) for general feel.

 

Please look to change and improve these aspects and don't rely on the community to fix them.

 

Thanks.

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There is a thread about how bad are F-14's sounds. From what I heard from the videos, I can say that I just hate the cringy overdramatized buttons and switches sounds and the cheesy afterburner in-cockpit sound (the same as Viggen's and MiG-21bis').

If you ask for that kind of stuff, Razbam can keep the sounds as they are now.


Edited by Bogey Jammer

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The sound is almost subjective, following what's your setup, how you remember how is a jet sound IRL, what you are comparing, ...

 

The current sounds of those three planes are ok for me

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There is something else to know, the 3rd part dev' team were not all the time free to do what they want with the sound:

unknown.png

 

 

So let's wait and hear what will be redo ;)

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with dcs, we need just to be patient. for me it is ok, we will see updates later, it will be better later, we can have now some fun, the F18 seem to have 2 years of work, lot of update.

 

may be, they can put also a better music theme for m2000, harrier, mig19 like other product for good ambiance.


Edited by jpbordi
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cringy overdramatized buttons and switches sounds

The problem with virtual cockpit controls is that they don't give sensual feedback like in real life when we flip the switch and feel it click into position. But it can be substituted with sound.

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When you're sat in an aircraft flicking switches, you can't normally hear them move, especially if the avionics and APU are powered up. In this way the switch sounds in game are often over played. Remember, in the simulation you're supposed to be wearing a helmet, one of the purposes of which is to cut down on the ambient sounds in order to protect your virtual hearing. Most fast jet pilots also wear a secondary form of hearing protection so that reduces in cockpit sound even more.

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But it can be substituted with sound.

You get both haptic feedback and sound with your mouse button when you click on the cockpit controls :D

 

 

Perfect balance is MiG-19P, with "normal" switches sounds, and animations which I like very much. The Mirage has nothing of that, and I just noticed it now.

I agree that it's a subjective matter.

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The external sounds of the Harrier are all static there are no flyby elements at all which means that it sounds the same flying overhead as it dose in a static engine run , this unrealistic but is becoming the trend from developers it seems.

 

Cheers

Jafa

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You know, if you look in the User download section of the DCS website, you can download updated sounds created by forum members which are really good. Try those and see if they float your boat. They are better than the originals. I don't fly online so I don't know if they break IC.

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This is an open post, to which I hope RAZBAM will take note of and perhaps do something about in future updates of their products. And yes I know, early access blah blah, but the point remains...

 

For the Harrier, the M2000C and now the MiG-19, the overall quality and immersion of the sounds of these modules is, to be frank, poor.

 

When creating simulations we are aiming in general for something to be as realistic as possible. Because a simulation cannot fully realise the sensation of the real thing, the things we can simulate accurately have to be all the more realistic. For example, while flying a jet in DCS we do not have the sensation of movement, nothing much can be done about that, we do not have the sense of smell, again nothing can be done. But we do have other senses we can use. Sight and Sound. For the former we can employ great graphics and rendering to make things look as real as possible and RAZBAM have done an excellent job in this respect. However, the next sense, sound is whats immersion breaking. In the absence of some of the major senses, these two have to be extra special.

 

As it stands, the sounds of the Harrier are 'OK' however, the main engine sound has a distinct seam at where the loop occurs. This sounds horrible. Also, the start up and in cockpit ambient sounds are really bad too. In the end I created a mod to improve this ( https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3300537/ ).

 

The M2000C is almost as bad, terrible start up ambiance, some kind of sonic boom sound when the afterburner ignites (which is not realistic at all). As for the MiG19, well, ok it's early but it's still bad.

 

As stated before, the importance of creating immersive atmosphere relies heavily on exciting the senses available to use in the simulation. It is not an after thought. The simulation goes above just the systems and modelling, its the way it feels. At the moment, RAZBAM lack behind the likes of ED (F18 etc) and HB (F14) for general feel.

 

Please look to change and improve these aspects and don't rely on the community to fix them.

 

Thanks.

 

 

What are you comparing these "non-realistic" sounds to? Is it just a feeling or thought of how you think it should be or because you've sat in any cockpit and heard them?

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You know, if you look in the User download section of the DCS website, you can download updated sounds created by forum members which are really good. Try those and see if they float your boat. They are better than the originals. I don't fly online so I don't know if they break IC.

 

Nothing wrong with audio samples them selves , its the way they are implemented , for example...most ED aircraft have some audio set aside for when the aircraft is moving aka you cannot hear these samples when the aircraft is stationary they creep in as the speed of the aircraft increases this gives or can give a better rendition of the difference in sound an aircraft has when its passing through the air , for example listen to a real spitfire doing a engine run up and then listen to one doing a flyby they dont sound the same do they .... which is the opposite of what we have going on hear and for that matter also over at Heatblur . Nice collection of audio samples but you have to put some time and skill into making them work in a realistic fashion :doh:

 

Cheers

Jafa

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So to sum it up, we need a "as much as realistic, as possible" sound in cockpit, with earprotection and a flight helmet on, while giving audible feedback for buttons, but not in an unrealistic manner. In addition when you are teleporting outside the cockpit in mid air like you do on every flight in real life, it should sound total real as well. And on the ground, also full realistic, but more like in the YouTube videos, as most of us haven't had the original planes standing a couple meters away without earprotection... if at all, they got near enough to judge the real thing.

Sounds like a challenge to the developers? ;)


Edited by shagrat

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As for the Mig19,what you hear is the wind, the faster you go, louder it gets.(In cockpit) In air, just before stall etc you hear nothing, no wind, no engine. Don't know if this is real, but it sounds weird.

To be honest I didn't like it in the beginning, but now ... it gives you a feel of what speed you are doing.

 

Only thing really bothering me in the mig19 is, you don't hear the afterburner in the cockpit. I would imagine, even with helmet on, even with micro etc on, you hear the afterburner in a plane like the mig.

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Although in real life you can’t hear the sound of switches (headset, noise) I think in the sim you should hear it. It gives you feedback if the switch was toggled or not or the button clicked.

Mouse is not enough. In RL you feel the switch going into position. Many switches are made to give you some kind of reassurance that are in place, like notched plates.

In the sim you don’t have it.

I like HB F14 because of that, it gives you feedback. I like F18 even more, but the switches are not so audible.

In the F14 the sound of the avionics is the same as for the Viggen.

But I agree that RAZBAM must developed better audio.

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  • 5 weeks later...

I think Shagrat captured it. Really the amount of in cockpit sounds are way over done in every module. Imagine trying to hear a cockpit click over a jet engine. I toyed with the idea of putting comms through my headphones and engine and world sounds through my speakers and then wearing my closed ear headphones. It would still need a level of "noise" I'm not sure How i would reproduce anything remotely realistic. "Hear like in Helmet" doesn't go far enough in my opinion.

 

 

Remember the days when we could hear jets creeping up on us? It's insane. "Imagined immersion" is a real thing.

 

I'd like to see anything that comes through the pilot headphones (sidewinder growl, avionics noises) on a separate sound channel in DCS so we could actually get closer to reality, depsite how boring that reality might be.

 

For Combined arms though, exterior sounds are amazing and very well done in DCS. Not sure If i can recognise the Harriers sounds hear, last time I heard it in front of me it set off car alarms for miles.... (which was super cool)

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What are you comparing these "non-realistic" sounds to? Is it just a feeling or thought of how you think it should be or because you've sat in any cockpit and heard them?

 

Check your ego. Mr expert who has flown every aircraft..... point is the sound scape sucks with these airframes and needs improvement. Mimic what heatblur does....

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What are you comparing these "non-realistic" sounds to? Is it just a feeling or thought of how you think it should be or because you've sat in any cockpit and heard them?

 

Spot on.

 

Whilst this thread does raise a valid point about the practicalities of having audibly "tactile" switches/buttons, the premise seems to be based upon the unlikely scenario that a (currently active) mirage/harrier pilot is taking issue with the realism of the simulated engine noises.

 

Additionally, I can't personally say I've noticed any seam in the engine loop on the harrier. Possibly because the general immersion is distracting me as I fly along...

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The old Spitfire sim-pit build thread circa '16/17:

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Check your ego. Mr expert who has flown every aircraft..... point is the sound scape sucks with these airframes and needs improvement. Mimic what heatblur does....
That is not a very useful approach, to my personal taste for realism, the Heatblur "clicks & cachunks" are a bit overdone... they do it to cover for no haptic feedback, but the exaggerated sounds are a compromise and NOT better.

I could ask with the same level of confidence to check your ego and build yourself a home cockpit, that gives you haptic feedback.

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  • 1 year later...

Discorvered this topic now.

 

For me missing good and loud enough "click" sounds in cockpit for every single switch and "slang" for levers, etc... is a very important point for immersion!. For those who do not like this, there is always the option to turn sound off, but for the other one, there is no option to add missing sounds!

 

Cheers


Edited by dggoofy
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The exterior sound of the Mirage is old, it dates from the release of the module.
Much progress has been made since in terms of sound ... F18-F16 ... ect ..
I only speak for the 2000 because I do not own any other Razbam modules.
But the exterior sounds need to have an upgrade .... Really.
With the help of the Air Force I think new sounds can be captured, there is no classification story, it is only sounds.
The 2000D and Rafale fly over my home, and each plane is unique in terms of sound.
Please update 2000 for our ears.
Thank you to all the team for your work.
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On 2/13/2021 at 1:24 AM, dggoofy said:

Discorvered this topic now.

 

For me missing good and loud enough "click" sounds in cockpit for every single switch and "slang" for levers, etc... is a very important point for immersion!. For those who do not like this, there is always the option to turn sound off, but for the other one, there is no option to add missing sounds!

 

Cheers

 

 That's funny you mention immersion, cause in real life (ie you're in the plane) you can't hear any of that stuff. That's one of the things I dislike most about the F-14, it sounds like somebody is banging around in the cockpit with a wrench, just stupidly overloud.

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It really depends alot on the type of switches and how they are mounted, but in some aircraft they are quite audible. The typical Russian breaker/switch combo for example mounted on a flat surface will give a click which you can hear even with everything running. A lot of CVR investigation includes reference to sounds of certain controls being operated or not. The flimsy switches in GA aircraft though, you can generally not hear.

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