Are those IR/CCD sensors near wheel wells?

Great to see that KA-50 getting attention. On render pics show , what appear to be, IR sensor turrets adjacent to wheel wells. Is that right?

They are the directional "jammers". As opposed to jammers that are omnidirectional.

https://russianmilitaryphotos.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/the-l370-5-president-s-countermeasures-suite/

I find this part incredably interesting:

– UV detector for detecting and transmitting the location of air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles as soon as they are launched

 

– Equipment for the detection of laser irradiation and locating the coordinates of its location

I'm sure they won't model all the false positives. :D

But yeah, that's how missile warning systems work, and we already have it on the A-10, works the same way.

I find this part incredably interesting:

That is interesting. So having a 360 degree view on small screen to show the direction of the incoming missile...

– Multi-panel display and a system that distinguishes false targets.

As it seems that the President-S doesn't just detect a sudden IR signature that missile bloom will cause like A-10C has, it will actually track and range the missile and so on find out its heading and if it is not coming toward helicopter it is marked as false.

The KA-50 gets likely the best IR missile counter system on the industry at this moment.

You could *almost* call it SEAD capable for IR missiles :beer:

You could *almost* call it SEAD capable for IR missiles :beer:

Almost is fairly well put, as considering that most dangerous SEAD missions would be trying to get a radar activated and Lock On you.

So if the difference is that you don't have anything to fire upon unless you spot the launcher and have weapon against it, like a Vikhr.

So yeah, that is fairly close to a SEAD :music_whistling:

Fancy!

Oh if only it had FLIR as well, and that asymmetric or wingtip iglas are possible.

Anti-Air + Anti-Armour + Long Range + High maneuverability + MLWS + Laser Warning Receiver + IR jammers + FLIR.

The only thing possibly missing then is an RWR.

:gun_smilie:

Fancy!

Oh if only it had FLIR as well, and that asymmetric or wingtip iglas are possible.

 

Anti-Air + Anti-Armour + Long Range + High maneuverability + MLWS + Laser Warning Receiver + IR jammers + FLIR.

 

The only thing possibly missing then is an RWR.

 

:gun_smilie:

Well, I wouldn't say that KA-50 is "anti-air" with the IGLAS even. But it will be nice to be used against CAS pilots.

And as far I have now understood, we should be getting a IGLA-1V or maybe even IGLA-S.

Anyways, comparing IGLA to Mistral, the IGLA-1 has inferior range and seeker sensitivity but superior resistance to counter measurements (CIA). And getting this way a 0.3-0.5 Pk against unprotected target, and 0.25 Pk for decoys and jamming. And that has got much better in the IGLA-S.

But the problem might be that how do we aim that thing? If it is a boresighted, it will be difficult to aim a faster horizontal target or anything that is above us.

If it is possible be linked to and aimed via Shkval, that gives some nice options for long range targeting.

If it is possible to be aimed via HMS, it would be great. But that 99% is not the case as far I understand that you need to lock the target before launch and that you can do only by aiming the missile boresighted as the seeker doesn't track or be guided. This way the R-73 would have been different case as you likely could had possibility to use HMS for aiming, so you would be deadly at few kilometer distance (KA-50 being stationary launch platform compared to any airplane) above or side of you.

Then there are other interesting questions, how are the IGLAs hanged? If it is IGLA-1V, it is likely a pair. But if it is IGLA-S, is there possibility that we have Strelets set?

But what is big big benefit is that we can finally as well have good change spot a fighter launched IR missiles, rendering them to use Cannon instead.

But looking at President-S and the IR/UV-sensors angle, it is more of a designed used from higher altitude, all pointing slightly downward. And so on usefulness at low altitude (as flare range and latitude considering) is likely lower. And maybe even non-existing if attack comes 30-60 degree above horizon?

Now here is mine, a wild and totally fantasy idea: Who says that IR/UV sensor in President-S is only good for tracking missiles? Why it can't be used to track anything that emits a heat signature, lets say a fighter?

Like what if you would get a direction of any fighter that flies around/above you? Alarmed from the possible attacks at you as aircraft flying toward you shouldn't be different from a missile than in size?

Yeah, sounds such a wild fantasy, but one must consider that engineers has thought of that! Fully passive detection system!

Now back to more realism.

This source says this about KA-52:

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2015/11/09/ka-52-alligator-attack-helicopters/

“Vitebsk” BKO-L-370B52 (for Ka-52)

It is designed to protect aircraft from anti-aircraft missiles with infrared, radar or combined homing heads. “Vitebsk” is able to track the launch of missiles within a radius of several hundred kilometers from the aircraft and “take away” the missile from the target.

 

Structurally, the complex L-370 “Vitebsk” is made in the form of blocks that can be located inside the fuselage and on the outer hinges of the aircraft or helicopter. The main elements of the complex are laser radiation detection equipment, ultraviolet rocket launching direction finder, control system, opto-electronic suppression station and false thermal targets (LTC) devices. The known modifications of BKO-L-370B52 (for Ka-52), L-370E8 (for MI-8MT), L-370E26L (for MI-26), L-370E50 (for Ka-50).

The main element of Vitebsk is the digital station for active interference (LSS) L-370-3S. It exceeds the Sorbtsiya (Su-27), Omul (Su-25), Gardenia (MiG-29) and suppresses the enemy radar in a wider frequency range. The complex includes a system of protection against missiles with a thermal homing head (TGSN), which blinds enemy missiles with a laser spotlight. Translated by google – source arms-expo.ru

That is a odd one, as it states that the two turrets under fuselage, the L-370-3S, are capable as well to radar jamming.

And here is the interesting part, from the Thai wikipedia (translation):

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%97%E3%83%AC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%87%E3%83%B3%E3%83%88-S

"President-S ( Президент-С ) or L-370 "Vitebsk" ( Л-370 « Витебск » Vitebsk ) is an active protection system for Russian aircraft . Radar and laser irradiation to the aircraft, the sensing of induction missile radar missiles [1] , infrared homing head [2] is designed to alert the crew to [2] ."

So, in that source the President-S should as well include a RWR capability!

So again, the L-370-3S would have a RF and IR/UV jamming capabilities, as well the SPO-32 / L150 Pastel digital receiver is embedded to the IR/UV sensors itself!

And one of the L150 in the Su-33:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3719185&postcount=12

The SPO-32 / L150 Pastel digital receiver has four antennas and maybe two IR/UV sensors.

So the wild thing could be, that the IR/UV sensors as well has embedded RF antennas, that could work as well as RWR warning system. As many of those are combined in other Soviet aircrafts, IR/RF are through the same system, question is just to connect the sensors to system.

But the sad thing is that even in KA-52, one can spot RWR antennas on the wingtips (where chaff launchers would be in KA-50) and just under the rudder (white dot, at 0:07):

But then again looking at various other images, not all KA-52 has those, but they do have President-S, and are those really antennas or just lights?

So going back to "grounds on earth", https://rostec.ru/en/news/4517944/

one can see that officially President-S has these:

President-S includes a laser illumination detector, ultraviolet missile approach warning system, electro-optical electronic warfare system, decoy flares, and control system.

So LWS, UV/IR missile detector and EO (likely the "L-370E50") turret and decoys.

The other questions that ED will reveal in the time, is not just that do we get IGLA's on what stations and how many, but as well that where we get the President-S offering screen for the pilot? Does it replace the LWS panel on top left inside cockpit or what?

Do we have any different cockpit layout, like the datalink panel moved to under the Skhval and weapons panel. and ABRIS screen smaller than now.

Many many interesting things that they are clearly staying quiet. And that can be very good reason why they have been required to do such huge amount of effort that new upgraded model is coming, not a direct update to BS2 only.

Good research! For the first time I read the Russian Wikipedia article and it says that the system is truly an all around active countermeasure system against laser, IR and radar threats! So it includes not only MWS, LWS but also an RWR with electronic jamming capabilities and everything should be automated.

If our good ole Shark includes all of that, then I'm truly amazed! What an awesome upgrade but I'll try to hold my horses until the capabilities are verified.

Well careful with wikipedia would it be russian or not, this is the kind of data which is not so public so well, you don't know.

Good research! For the first time I read the Russian Wikipedia article and it says that the system is truly an all around active countermeasure system against laser, IR and radar threats! So it includes not only MWS, LWS but also an RWR with electronic jamming capabilities and everything should be automated.

If our good ole Shark includes all of that, then I'm truly amazed! What an awesome upgrade but I'll try to hold my horses until the capabilities are verified.

Yeah. I believe it is just better to take it with a rock of salt that there is anything related to RF in the jamming part, and that RF features are just for another sensors like separate RWR antennas and a external RF jammers.

As that would make the sense that the self-protection suite is the complete package and you connect all the sensors you want the system to have, in this case the KA-50 would have only a IR/UV optical ones that can detect launches as laser ranging and then use those "laser turrets" only against IR missiles as well launch flares. And if you want RWR capability, you need to wire RWR antennas, RF jammer and chaff launchers to the system and that way the system can as well detect radar guided missiles and counter those by using jammer and chaff.

Of course if the huge optical sensors are as well having a RF antennas (would it take so much space? As those sensors anyways has odd looking greyish thick donut around them) then you would hit two birds with one stone.

So on short form:

President-S system is about the IR/UV missile detection and jamming, with assistance of flares.

And the complete protective suite is about the system that gets connected to the all different sensors and counter-measurement systems and it controls all of them, including President-S.

The system is tailored per helicopter/aircraft, and KA-50 does not have RWR antennas so it doesn't get that feature.

But that 99% is not the case as far I understand that you need to lock the target before launch and that you can do only by aiming the missile boresighted as the seeker doesn't track or be guided.

Hmm, I would think it would be like the Aim-9, in that you get a strong tone over the target ( seeker is seeing it ) in a boresight mode, then uncage the seeker head, and let it track the target itself, unhindered. That is your "lock" right before launch.

Great to see that KA-50 getting attention. On render pics show , what appear to be, IR sensor turrets adjacent to wheel wells. Is that right?

To be honest I care less about the IR sensor I get killed the most with Radar Missile without even knowing that anything is wrong regard less of anything I try to do high flying F-18s get me with an AMRAAM from more than 20km away. That to me is the most annoying thing about the Ka-50, because you can hide and defeat heat-seeking missile by a lot of ways but nothing you can do about RADAR ones as I said you don't even know it that you are being attacked by one until the disaster strike!

After all you have to be in close visual range for heat-seeker but the bloody Radar homing you know the rest...