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DCS: MiG-23MLA by RAZBAM


MrDieing

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https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/mikoyan-mig-23-avionics.25/

 

http://www.airvectors.net/avmig23_1.html

 

"The MiG-23M also was fitted with the Lasour-SMA automated datalink guidance system, an improved derivative of the Lasour-1 datalink introduced on the MiG-21 interceptor series. The Lasour-SMA was integrated with the Vozdukh-1M ground-controlled intercept (GCI) network. The pilot still flew the aircraft but kept on climb and course headings as provided over the datalink. The directions were provided by indicators on a special dashboard panel under the HUD / gunsight, backed up by audio cues for the pilot to engage afterburner, perform a missile launch, and so on. The datalink was jam-resistant and allowed a MiG-23 to vector in on a target over the fastest trajectory. If the terminal attack was performed with the IRST and an R-23T heat-seeking AAM, the target might never see the attack coming."

 

"The MiG-23ML was very attractive, its good performance and BVR look-down / shoot-down missile capability being exactly what the PVO needed, while its deficiencies in maneuverability were not a major concern in the pure interceptor role. The PVO was strongly oriented towards automated CGI operations, and so the service obtained a variant of the MiG-23ML with appropriately optimized avionics, designated the "MiG-23P" -- the "P" standing for "perekvatchik (interceptor)"."

 

"The primary change was the incorporation of an SAU-23P autopilot / flight control system, which was integrated with a Lasour-M GCI datalink to permit intercepts almost completely under ground control, the pilot only handling the throttle as instructed by the system. At least 500 MiG-23Ps were built for the PVO from 1978 into 1981, and the type became a mainstay of the Soviet interceptor force in the 1980s. Upgrades were provided in service to support the R-24R/T and R-60M AAMs."

 

 

In the early variants pilot got guidance, in the upgraded models autopilot did flying with datalink.

 

 

Well...…..nope. GCI system was automated, data link was automated, but autopilot wasn't. MiG-23MLA and MiG-23P have only one difference: data link device type, MLA had Lasoor, P had PVO's used system called 5P15 because WWS and PVO were separate air forces formations and were use different GCI systems. Autopilot from MiG-23 (whatever which variant) have only two automated modes: route flight according RSBN-6S, and landing approach according PRMG-5. This is very common misunderstanig what means by Soviets "automated GCI", first systems from late 50's and early 60's had a operator, person which was observing radar's scopes and manually was setting and sending commands to fighters by ARL. Later systems were automatized, GCI operator only have to assign target to fighter, choose tactics variant and all rest was calculated and sent by computers in GCI center. Like written before only MiG-25/31, later Su-15 and Su-27 had this capability.

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There any decent books on how soviet era gci worked/tactics?

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... GCI operator only have to assign target to fighter, choose tactics variant and all rest was calculated and sent by computers in GCI center. Like written before only MiG-25/31, later Su-15 and Su-27 had this capability.

So GCI didn't have control over the weapons system, correct? Only assigning targets, providing tactics, etc. I mean, the GCI operator couldn't lock up targets and fire missiles, right? Otherwise I'm speechless, especially if you look at the era we're talkig about there. If they were so good back then, who knows what they can do with a MiG-31!

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There any decent books on how soviet era gci worked/tactics?

Don't ask for books or manuals. You might get arrested these days :smilewink:

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So GCI didn't have control over the weapons system, correct? Only assigning targets, providing tactics, etc. I mean, the GCI operator couldn't lock up targets and fire missiles, right? Otherwise I'm speechless, especially if you look at the era we're talkig about there. If they were so good back then, who knows what they can do with a MiG-31!

 

Since Mig-23 (except MS variant) Soviet radars had automatic and manual work modes. During GCI guidance ground center was able sent info about target's position to fighter. If radar was set to automatic mode, then after receive this info, radar was able move antenna to this direction. When target was in appriopriate distance radar automatically changed mode to STT and was able prepare missiles (if those were in automatic mode as well). So GCI wasn't able directly control weapon system but signals from GCI were kind of triggers for automatics. So, in MiG-23 pilot was steering aircraft according commands from ground to some point in space, then depending on weapon system mode (auto or manual) air target attack was done by pilot or by radar's automatics. Some aircrafts like MiG-25, late Su-15, MiG-31, Su-27 had really expanded automatics and aircraft was able doo everything almost automatically, pilot just have to set parameters range like max speeds, altitude, switches and modes in right combinations, establish communication with GCI center etc.

Whole procedure was complicated and not always enough elastic but Soviets loved GCI systems, had few types of them and perceived them as a very effective compare to typical voice over radio guidance. Soviet PVO had integrated in one system fighters and SAM's units and GCI was able choose between fighters or missiles use.

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Don't ask for books or manuals. You might get arrested these days :smilewink:

 

Too soon man too soon....

 

And im serious, im not looking for anything classifed, just something on amazon.

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So GCI didn't have control over the weapons system, correct? Only assigning targets, providing tactics, etc. I mean, the GCI operator couldn't lock up targets and fire missiles, right? Otherwise I'm speechless, especially if you look at the era we're talkig about there. If they were so good back then, who knows what they can do with a MiG-31!

 

There were plenty of totally autonomous drones and missiles even in the 50s and 60s the tech isnt that hard. The man in the loop concept is to deal with problems that come up and to fine tune things do the final attack which might be harder. And yes modern tech is pretty amazing. And really DCS doesnt really do much modeling of modern air combat, its more like 70s era air combat with more modern airframes and weapons.

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Too soon man too soon....

 

 

 

And im serious, im not looking for anything classifed, just something on amazon.

There are manuals etc. The engineering blueprints etc showing how MiG-23 was guided over datalink by GCI etc.

Those things can't be just shared anymore for safety reasons, even when sources are public.

 

It is not the data, it is the means and distributer who can get in trouble.

 

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I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

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  • 2 weeks later...
<knock> <knock>

MUAMSHAI: "Who is it"

Russian Feds: "The cops"

MUASHAI: "but I used a VPN"

Russian Feds: "LOL"

 

 

why would the Russian authorities be knocking on your door, if the person in question doesn't live there?


Edited by Kev2go

 

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They like field trips.

 

 

( implying assassination or kidnapping of foreign national) over a manual from an obsolete aircraft that was vastly exported anyways?

 

Hmm great way to start an international incident and commit diplomatic suicide.


Edited by Kev2go

 

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Windows 10 64 bit Pro

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In any event, I hope they include the datalink, and that ED pulls a thumb out and gives us some sort of GCI, which they should if they do a realistic IADS implementation with the dynamic campaign.

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In any event, I hope they include the datalink, and that ED pulls a thumb out and gives us some sort of GCI, which they should if they do a realistic IADS implementation with the dynamic campaign.

 

Yeah, I would add GCI would still be welcome and usefull function for BLUEFORCE, even if the NATO doctrine was not as heavily based around it like Russian aircraft of the time.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
i really hope this will be on the same level as the 21.

 

God No!!!!

I really hope this will be on the same level as Mi-8, Ka-50 and L-39. Or F/A-18(but not the F-14).

ППС  АВТ 100 60 36  Ф <  |  >  !  ПД  К

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What's wrong with DCS: F-14B?

Its still green, let it hang on its tree a little more. Flight - maneuverability, acceleration, top speed and contact to carrier/ground dynamics, Phoenix guidance and energy loss(or lack of). Its progressing, but I don't want to use MiG-21, Viggen and F-14 as examples of top DCS Modules. ED/BST are still unrivaled.

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well... i just wanted to say that while i like the MiG-19, i feel it's still pretty lacking in the cockpit. i don't want the Flogger to come out the same.

 

Tell me more. I'm debating whether or not to get the 19 yet.

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well... i just wanted to say that while i like the MiG-19, i feel it's still pretty lacking in the cockpit. i don't want the Flogger to come out the same.

 

 

Hello halowraith1,

 

 

What do you feel is still lacking in the cockpit? Could you expand on this?

 

 

Thanks

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