F-5N module upgrade

What user made addons does ED Block?

last time i check if you try to make an Addon/Plugin similar to the ns430 and add it to an existing Plane, DCS throws this error

Scripting: plugin: test_addon unit modification F-5E not allowed

it works perfectly fine with a UserMade Plane (like CubanAces su57 for example)

if there has been a change to that, that would be great news

(and yes the test_addon was in the SavedGames folder as other Mods)

Pertinent NATOPS Flight manual dated January 2006.

 

https://www.eflightmanuals.com/ITEM_EFM/SDETAIL_EFM.asp?mID=14562

 

Thoughts?

First thought:

Did you happen to read that particular manual?

It has nothing on the APG-69, the integration of the MFD, or the HSD/GPS. Purely the AN/APQ-153. It's also a substantial part of the materials Belsim already had when they originally developed the F-5E, including the source that certain individuals swore up and down is an incorrect description of the operation of the ALR-87.

You're going to have to work a fair bit harder to go down this particular rabbit hole. It'd be nice to see happen, but what you have presented doesn't help the case.

last time i check if you try to make an Addon/Plugin similar to the ns430 and add it to an existing Plane, DCS throws this error

 

Scripting: plugin: test_addon unit modification F-5E not allowed

it works perfectly fine with a UserMade Plane (like CubanAces su57 for example)

 

if there has been a change to that, that would be great news

I Hope this never happens. Fortunately, ED works as we Can keep calling DCS a simulator. A su-57 (with all the respect to its creator) can't have a role in such setting, and user mods such the One you suggest could at the end ruin DCS experience. DCS F-5 is F-5E-3. This is the module proposed, buy It and fly It if you like. For more modern jets There are other options already available (a-10c, harrier, f/a-18 )

i am ACTUALY surprised it took this long for someone to get triggered like that.

buuuuut i actualy agree with you :)

Pertinent NATOPS Flight manual dated January 2006.

 

https://www.eflightmanuals.com/ITEM_EFM/SDETAIL_EFM.asp?mID=14562

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

I think any improvement is welcome. Would purchase as an add-on.

I would however prefer a more basic navigation system, like the INS described in the above-cited NAVAIR.

Also, should the devs decide to invest time to expand the F-5 capabilities beyond the USAF F-5E-3, the air refueling probe, as described in the TO 1F-5E(I)-1 https://www.eflightmanuals.com/ITEM_EFM/SDETAIL_EFM.asp?mID=8997 would be nice. Also in there are the INS, recce nose and RATO. Would purchase as a new module.

I'd buy it on release day for sure.

I'd consider buying it if it came with Mavericks..

I'd also love to see a wider range of A2A misslies such as the AIM 120 for example. The current A2A capability is substandard.

Some devs have thought this stuff through too. Remember HB is making two F-14's, with a possible third being developed as a paid addon. In addition, Rambazzles has been floating with the idea of different Harrier versions for a while.

I'd also love to see a wider range of A2A misslies such as the AIM 120 for example. The current A2A capability is substandard.

No it isn't. Modern jets are only our standard because we live in these times. If you were alive and of military age 40 years ago the F-5 would represent an inexpensive knife fighter capable of handling planes like the "modern" F-4 and MiG-21 when flown expertly.

No it isn't. Modern jets are only our standard because we live in these times. If you were alive and of military age 40 years ago the F-5 would represent an inexpensive knife fighter capable of handling planes like the "modern" F-4 and MiG-21 when flown expertly.

Fair enough. Still, the option to employ the AMRAAM would not hurt. If you don't want to use it, just leave it - while those who want to could go ahead and do so - and everyone is happy.

Its fine if the mig-21 can carry ER :p

If i remember correctly the N had a better radar that was able to fire the Aim 7 as well as an advanced INS.

I don't think any further upgrades / enhancements will happen to this module though. At this point I'll be happy if the misaligned pylons/bombs will be fixed.

Give it the Golden Eagle treatment. :lol:

please read my explenation befor you post and jump to conclusions

i specificly speak about ADDONs (like the ns430) and not MODs in general.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3583488&postcount=26

I just say this now: Make it a "upgrade module", meaning you need to own the F-5E (the "base module") first before you can buy this.

It is the method that I would pretty much like to see ED to implement for developers. As there are lots of different kind variants of the aircrafts and that would allow developers to pick first one "base version" and then offer some "upgrades" as "DLC" to it.

In the future when we get first REDFOR full fidelity module, Mig-23MLA, we could very well had a multiple variants from it.

The F-14 could have been separate version as F-14A as base module and then B be the upgrade module. That way you could get more income by those who want to buy them both, but still have more A version fliers with lower price.

L-39C could have been the base module, and ZA (light attack variant) as upgrade DLC.

We could have F-15A as base module, then F-15C as upgrade and ultimate the F-15E.

It should be far more easier for developers to take some specific variants (like Mig-23MLA and upgrade it to MLD) and upgrade them with less work than starting totally new module, (of course nothing of this denies doing exactly that and sell it as separate module, but IMHO it should be upgrade path to generate more income for the developer. And this way we could get older variants as newer variants too.

In this case F-5E could be upgraded to this F-5N for lower price as it requires the F-5E to be owned first.

Yes it demands lots of work to do the systems changes, but if it would be easier for developers get more money... I wouldn't mind for it. Then would of course be question it is not abused, like should the upgrade be: Base > Upgrade 1 > Upgrade 2 > Upgrade 3. Or could you just get Base + Upgrade 3 to get it working?

Eventually some modules start to get lower sales in the time. And studio/developer needs to find a new way to secure income. So they might seek a new aircraft. But considering that there would be official upgrade path available for developers, they could consider in the future to offer a new variant of the older version. Like if in 5-7 years we would see a Mig-21Bison or Mig-21-93, it could boost the sales of Mig-21Bis as well.

Something that would be interesting to see would seeing as a Standalone Module upgrade. SOld as a separate module, but upgradeable in the sense, it would be sold for discount to those who own the F5E. ( or a discount for a combined purchase of Both)

 

 

 

F5N are ex- swiss F5E's acquired by the US navy and USMC for aggressor training to supplement and replace older F5E's. This acquisition program was completed in 2008 after 6 years acquiring 44 Swiss F5's. Swiss were essentially the same thing as the f5e3 but with digital radio set.

 

 

US navy had placed a contract by northrop grumman to further modernized the some of the F5N's

 

On behalf of the Navy and USMC 24 f5n were upgraded with a Multi function display in the place of the Old an/apq 159 Radar Display. Navigation wise , it was fitted Ln260 Inertial Navigation system, embedded GPS and a Moving map display accessible via the MFD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I would even gladly pay a few bucks for that update. It would make the F-5E attractive again for old and new buyers. I already have the F-5E, but if not, I would not buy such a limited plane now that there exist in DCS the Harrier, the Viggen, the F/A-18 and the F-14B, all of them more glamorous, powerful, complex and interesting planes. Right now, you can't even operate all weather and at night with the avionics of the F-5E. Also, I think the module won't be complete without the simulation of compressor stalls and flame outs.

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I would even gladly pay a few bucks for that update. It would make the F-5E attractive again for old and new buyers. I already have the F-5E, but if not, I would not buy such a limited plane now that there exist in DCS the Harrier, the Viggen, the F/A-18 and the F-14B, all of them more glamorous, powerful, complex and interesting planes. Right now, you can't even operate all weather and at night with the avionics of the F-5E. Also, I think the module won't be complete without the simulation of compressor stalls and flame outs.

and? neither can the Mig21Bis or Mig19P or future planned Mig23MLA or Mirage 3CJ.

F5E isnt supposed to be a peer adversary to 4th generation aircraft. Older aircraft designs have thier place in DCS, IF you dont care for them thats fine. BUt i dont think it fair to dismiss aircraft just because they arent as capable as F/A18 ( or insert other favourite modern fighter) as DCS isnt strictly about 21st century era air combat anymore. There are plenty of enough assets to have 1970s Cold war scenarios. with 3rd gen aircraft, and these list of older aircraft are expanding.

and? neither can the Mig21Bis or Mig19P or future planned Mig23MLA or Mirage 3CJ.

 

 

F5E isnt supposed to be a peer adversary to 4th generation aircraft. Older aircraft designs have thier place in DCS, IF you dont care for them thats fine. BUt i dont think it fair to dismiss aircraft just because they arent as capable as F/A18 ( or insert other favourite modern fighter) as DCS isnt strictly about 21st century era air combat anymore. There are plenty of enough assets to have 1970s Cold war scenarios. with 3rd gen aircraft, and these list of older aircraft are expanding.

I´m talking about COMERCIAL atractive. When I brought the F-5E there were not Viggen, Harrier, Tomcat or F/A-18. If I were a new costumer, I would prefer spend my money in one of those planes (same category, fighters, same era, late 70's to late 90's) since you can do more things with those planes that with the F-5E. To fly at night or with bad weather and land with ILS, for example. Or to use more variety of weapons, and to do more variety of missions. And, also, all of them are more "sexy" and "glamorous" than a trainer "sparring" for the F-14, F-15 and Phantom. That's actually the version of the F-5E simulated here.

Question: when you saw "Top Gun", did you want to fly the Mig-28, or the Tomcat? What do you think new costumers will buy? The Mig-28, or the Tomcat?

I´m pretty sure that the sales of the F-5E are pretty much stagnant for a long time and will be more stagnant when new and more attractive planes will exist in DCSWorld. But a payware upgrade to the F-5N version would make the plane more attractive for new costumers, and I´m pretty sure that most of the people that already have the F-5 would also pay a few bucks for it.

I´m talking about COMERCIAL atractive. When I brought the F-5E there were not Viggen, Harrier, Tomcat or F/A-18. If I were a new costumer, I would prefer spend my money in one of those planes (same category, fighters, same era, late 70's to late 90's) since you can do more things with those planes that with the F-5E. To fly at night or with bad weather and land with ILS, for example. Or to use more variety of weapons, and to do more variety of missions. And, also, all of them are more "sexy" and "glamorous" than a trainer "sparring" for the F-14, F-15 and Phantom. That's actually the version of the F-5E simulated here.

 

Question: when you saw "Top Gun", did you want to fly the Mig-28, or the Tomcat? What do you think new costumers will buy? The Mig-28, or the Tomcat?

 

I´m pretty sure that the sales of the F-5E are pretty much stagnant for a long time and will be more stagnant when new and more attractive planes will exist in DCSWorld. But a payware upgrade to the F-5N version would make the plane more attractive for new costumers, and I´m pretty sure that most of the people that already have the F-5 would also pay a few bucks for it.

Comercially? Lol Viggen isnt exactly commercially attractive either. Its kind of got a Niche following as only Sweden used that Aircraft, and its very role specific aircraft based around unique Swedish Doctrine. F5E is already arguably a far more mass appealing aircraft than the Viggen even if its not as capable for ground attack or lacks actual anti shipping capabilities.

You seem to forget that F5E isnt just a plane for Disimmilar air combat training /Agressor against Teen fighters in Nevada.....

F5E was used in similar configuration around the world by various export users.

The F5E is a lightweight export plane meant for cost effectiveness and simplicity at a time when the trend was to large complex and expensive fighters. which not everyone could afford.

F5E is straightfoward to learn ( but still taking time to master) , its got a logical and freindly cockpit layout, its Pilots plane in terms of handling ( especially considering its not a FBW aircraft) and its actually very fun zip around in. It makes a great opponent to the Mig21BIS. and historical one too if you look at foreign conflicts, like the IRan/IRAQ war. Id say ironically its like an opposite analogy to F4 vs Mig21. where the Mig21bis has to use superior energy for vertical attacks, and F5E is a going to rely on Horizontal Dogfighting. when it comes to avionics, both have pros and cons, hence why there pretty well matched in a dissimilar sort of way.

F5 is actually quite an underrated aircraft among its era and playing I learned to apreciate and like it even more. If there existed a was a High low mix of the 3rd generation it would be the F4 and F5 analogous to the F15 and bvrless F16A.

The good thing of F5-E is that it is easy to operate and it is more concerned about flying than managing systems, unlike a 4th gen fighter. If you don't like it, fly f-18, a-10c, m2000c, av-8b. You'll have a lot of buttons and mfcd to operate. But please let the f-5 as it is. There is people who like 1970-1980 combat flying experience. I do not know if f-5e sales are stagnant, but I know that the good thing of DCS is that it offers any kind of combat air operation, from ww2 to 4th gen era. To each his own.

The good thing of F5-E is that it is easy to operate and it is more concerned about flying than managing systems, unlike a 4th gen fighter. If you don't like it, fly f-18, a-10c, m2000c, av-8b. You'll have a lot of buttons and mfcd to operate. But please let the f-5 as it is. There is people who like 1970-1980 combat flying experience. I do not know if f-5e sales are stagnant, but I know that the good thing of DCS is that it offers any kind of combat air operation, from ww2 to 4th gen era. To each his own.

The suggestion is to make a payware update for the F-5E to the level of F-5N, the version of the F-5 used by the US Navy during the 90's and part of the 2000's as "adversay" trainers. If you don't like it, don't buy it. That thing of "let the F-5 as it is" is nonsense since nobody is going to change your F-5 if you don't buy that proposed module.