TCS abilities.

I know there is serval threads about the TCS. But I have a few questions in regards to its abilities, it was my conception that the TCS was slave to the radar. Thought it appears in these screens I took from the 1995 Fighter Fling, that either it was able to slew or the AN/AWG-9 was amazing enough to lock up both an eagle and a moose on the ground. So was the TCS more than just slave to the radar?

My understanding of the TCS system is if you imagine a TV guided Maverick. The system can use contrast and image recognition to spot 'objects' against a background and can then track that object independently of inputs from another system. It can also be 'slaved' to the radar in the same way as an AIM-9 to point its seeker head at a given direction, at which point again it takes over.

The AWG-9 is not tracking the target and directing a dumb camera to follow it - the radar provides an initial - "look over here" instruction, before the TCS takes over and tracks.

The TCS has several modes of acquiring and following a contrasted target independently.

The HCU allows for manual control of the TCS and also to acquire and track targets independently of the radar.

In addition to this it can be slaved to the radar allowing for automatic acquisition and also the radar can actually be slaved to the TCS to help the radar find a target. This might be useful against, as an example, a jamming target.

I recommend this post by 129 B-3 which has the relevant manual pages: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3715479&postcount=16

Thank-you very much guys, just the information I was looking for! Great to see your replies were so quick, 99% of this community are really great.

The joke being- you can be headed into the merge at 1200 knots of closure with the radar locked on chaff and the TCS locked on a cloud...

This aircraft takes skill...

In Tom Clancy's "Red Storm Rising" they use the TCS to covertly shadow a Soviet bomber formation to find out where they are taking off and landing from. Completely EMCON, just using the TCS. This is a major feature, as much like the IRSS on Russian planes, it is completely passive and doesn't alert the target that it is being tracked (not in the radar sense of course)

In Tom Clancy's "Red Storm Rising" they use the TCS to covertly shadow a Soviet bomber formation to find out where they are taking off and landing from. Completely EMCON, just using the TCS. This is a major feature, as much like the IRSS on Russian planes, it is completely passive and doesn't alert the target that it is being tracked (not in the radar sense of course)

Unfortunately the Tomcat lacks any missiles which could use the TCS solely for an intercept solution. Im actually pretty amazed that the US military has never developed a missile like the soviet ET series.

Unfortunately the Tomcat lacks any missiles which could use the TCS solely for an intercept solution. Im actually pretty amazed that the US military has never developed a missile like the soviet ET series.

AIM-9 should be able to be targeted via TCS, AIM-7 HOJ could get an initial bearing, AIM-54 Active shots should all be able to take azimuth inputs and have their seekers aimed by the TCS. How does this not happen?

AIM-9 should be able to be targeted via TCS, AIM-7 HOJ could get an initial bearing, AIM-54 Active shots should all be able to take azimuth inputs and have their seekers aimed by the TCS. How does this not happen?

Can TCS estimate range when the track is displayed on TID or is range only available with a slaved radar track?

Unfortunately the Tomcat lacks any missiles which could use the TCS solely for an intercept solution. Im actually pretty amazed that the US military has never developed a missile like the soviet ET series.

Yeah, in the book they were only used for reconnaissance, once they found out where the bombers were based they hammered them with Tomahawks from subs ;)

Can TCS estimate range when the track is displayed on TID or is range only available with a slaved radar track?

I don't think it can provide exact range on its own but it can provide rate and range info. However if the crew knows that the range is inside the pK of the weapon it can be fired no problem if the weapon can guide. Think of a Jamming target where you lock a strong strobe and use TCS to refine the lock. I'm very interested in using this capability at range- If the TCS can lock a pixel that's jamming and there is enough of a return on the radar- you may be able to accurately lock and shoot beyond your radar's quoted burn through range against that type of jammer. Still not the best shot, but much better than a HOJ pure pursuit course.

I'm very interested in using this capability at range- If the TCS can lock a pixel that's jamming and there is enough of a return on the radar- you may be able to accurately lock and shoot beyond your radar's quoted burn through range against that type of jammer. Still not the best shot, but much better than a HOJ pure pursuit course.

Yeah I’d like to see exactly what it can do as well. Like I wonder if we’ll be able to turn the radar off after acquiring the lock and slaving TCS then use it for sneaking up on people at range. Then just use the ACM mode on the Aim-54 for mad dog shots (not sure if that’s possible with radar not emitting at all) Or close in for some aim-9 supprises.

Yeah I’d like to see exactly what it can do as well. Like I wonder if we’ll be able to turn the radar off after acquiring the lock and slaving TCS then use it for sneaking up on people at range. Then just use the ACM mode on the Aim-54 for mad dog shots (not sure if that’s possible with radar not emitting at all) Or close in for some aim-9 supprises.

This is an ability we can use. Go radar standby and intercept until a good weapons shot with the radar. Bad idea in multiplay as the TCS is gonna make you look at the entire sky through a soda straw and you'll be focused on one guy. You'll need a very good radar SA from a wingman or E-2

Belay my last- TCS does not slew weapons or provide cues. Gotta slave the radar and use the radar for all cues

Belay my last- TCS does not slew weapons or provide cues. Gotta slave the radar and use the radar for all cues

Belay most of this thread. I'll repeat. The TCS cannot be used to guide ANY of the weapons the Tomcat carries. You can aquire a target in TCS, but like Turkeydriver said in his last post, you need to turn on the radar, slave it to the TCS lock, and then and only then can you guide your weapons to the target.

Belay my last- TCS does not slew weapons or provide cues. Gotta slave the radar and use the radar for all cues

Hello turkeydriver,

Are you sure - what about the AIM-9 Sidewinder TV SCAN mode, in which the missile seekerhead is slaved to the TCS ?

I do know the missile will guide itself on the target's heat signature when locked... but before lock I believe its seekerhead can be slewed / cued to target by the TCS also.

The diagram below is my take on the mater after some research throughout the web.

(Each asterisk is a condition where the AIM-9 can be fired.)

It is a possibility but I haven't seen a single confirmation of the capability

Belay most of this thread. I'll repeat. The TCS cannot be used to guide ANY of the weapons the Tomcat carries. You can aquire a target in TCS, but like Turkeydriver said in his last post, you need to turn on the radar, slave it to the TCS lock, and then and only then can you guide your weapons to the target.

I know the WCS needs to be on, but I would think you can employ weapons like the Gun and Aim-9 with the radar in Emcon/Standby. Using manual aiming solutions and no cuing. You can in any other aircraft I know of.

In any case it sounds like the TCS cannot provide Cuing either. :( My next question is: Does the ACM mode on the Aim-54 require a radar lock or can you take mad dog shots like the 120 with the radar in standby/not emitting?

I know the WCS needs to be on, but I would think you can employ weapons like the Gun and Aim-9 with the radar in Emcon/Standby. Using manual aiming solutions and no cuing. You can in any other aircraft I know of.

 

In any case it sounds like the TCS cannot provide Cuing either. :( My next question is: Does the ACM mode on the Aim-54 require a radar lock or can you take mad dog shots like the 120 with the radar in standby/not emitting?

You can use the gun and the aim9 with the radar in standby or off, should go without saying. Im not sure about the Phoenix, but I think one of the devs mentioned that you should be able to fire it "mad dog" so to speak with the missile going active off the rail and tracking the first thing it locks onto. I know there is an option for it fire it's motor directly off the rail, instead of the 2 seconds it usually requires. Wouldn't want to try it in anything other than 1 v 1 and at relatively close ranges, for obvious reasons.

From what I've read the TCS was mainly used to clearly identify targets, so basically when you have a bogey locked up on radar and wanted to make sure that you're not going to launch on a neutral or friendly. Not sure how useful it will be in DCS really, since IFF in DCS is usually always right (other than in the Hornet lol) and there are no neutrals or civilian aircraft in the air. It does open up a decent bit of "what if" scenarios though for creative mission builders.

It is a possibility but I haven't seen a single confirmation of the capability

I know the WCS needs to be on, but I would think you can employ weapons like the Gun and Aim-9 with the radar in Emcon/Standby. Using manual aiming solutions and no cuing. You can in any other aircraft I know of.

 

In any case it sounds like the TCS cannot provide Cuing either. :( My next question is: Does the ACM mode on the Aim-54 require a radar lock or can you take mad dog shots like the 120 with the radar in standby/not emitting?

Gentlemen,

At the link below, search for the sentence (using Ctrl + F) :

" AIM-9 seeker can also be commanded to a TCS lock "

That paragraph and the 2 before (by @gyyrovague), are interesting and answers the question.

Gentlemen,

 

At the link below, search for the sentence (using Ctrl + F) :

 

" AIM-9 seeker can also be commanded to a TCS lock "

 

 

That paragraph and the 2 before (by @gyyrovague), are interesting and answers the question.

Thank you! That is exactly the kind of capability I was hoping for. Want to be able to sneak up behind someone without AWG-9 lighting up their RWR like a Christmas tree.

Cool, it's nice that at least the Aim9 can be slaved to the TCS. The question though is why would you want it to. The missile already has it's own seeker and by the time you are able to fire it, it's own seeker should be able to lock onto the heat signature of the bandit. You can still use the TCS to sneak up to the enemy, but it seems like slaving the missile's seeker on him is kind of redundant when it's a heater. Now that scenario with the AIM7 is kind of interesting, firing the missile in "dumb mode" so to speak and then lighting up the bandit at the last minute with the radar so that the AIM7 starts to track.

Cool, it's nice that at least the Aim9 can be slaved to the TCS. The question though is why would you want it to. The missile already has it's own seeker and by the time you are able to fire it, it's own seeker should be able to lock onto the heat signature of the bandit. You can still use the TCS to sneak up to the enemy, but it seems like slaving the missile's seeker on him is kind of redundant when it's a heater. Now that scenario with the AIM7 is kind of interesting, firing the missile in "dumb mode" so to speak and then lighting up the bandit at the last minute with the radar so that the AIM7 starts to track.

My guess, is that the capability of automatic seekerhead slaving by the TCS, should be some kind of combat optimization concept.

Otherwise, the pilot would have to spend extra time in aiming the missile seekerhead to target manually - by boresight mode or something, (or by WCS / Radar modes, which again would take time and alert the enemy.)

Those moments could be crucial, when one is so close to the enemy aircraft in a combat situation.

I've never had to turn on the radar or manually aim the AIM9m seeker in any plane ever. Just uncaging the seeker and pointing the nose in the general direction is usually more than enough to get tone.

Cool, it's nice that at least the Aim9 can be slaved to the TCS. The question though is why would you want it to.

If there's more than one target, it would be easier to target the one you wanted I guess?!