Yet another warthog slew upgrade

Looking awesome as always Delta, I've just had a thought.. Would there be space at the top of the end of the handle to do something similar to the IRL F-15 radar elevation rotary?

My original idea was to have a knob mounted low down on the side rather than a lever, but the lever seemed easier to use my testing.

It had not occurred to put the rotary at the top of the grip, I had no idea that was a thing but I really like the look of it. I’ll look into it.

Well, a radar elevation rotary like in the F-15 would be a great mod for the Warthog throttle, too. Maybe even better than the lever Deltaalphalima1 suggested.

Thanks so much to everyone how has posted any feedback or comments, even if I don’t reply to them all I really appreciate it.

 

The March batch sold out in spectacular fashion overnight after a post over on reddit (thanks for whoever that was :thumbup:) The April batch is now available to pre-order https://deltasimelectronics.com/products/thumbstick-slew-sensor-adapter

As normal April should be a worst case scenario date - hopefully orders placed now will be sent late March or early April.

 

I am still on target for shipping 20 orders per week, and I'm more or less up to speed after the Christmas slowdown. I am current up to order #1452 so you should be able to work out an approximate shipping date for you order from there.

 

I have been investing a lot of time and effort in improving the manufacturing process, and a few small working details over the last month or so. This should buy me some more time to get back to work on the radar elevation project.

 

A super work in progress teaser pic here (usual disclaimers apply)

 

Thanks to everyone again for their support, here's to a great 2019 :)

I am in. Shut up and take my money :D

Is that radar elevation thingie?

Good stuff! Order one for the next batch.

Thanks Matt! that's awesome :)

There already is a radar elevation knob on Debolestis Shapeways Shop here: https://www.shapeways.com/product/N4EHBB3HJ/antenna-elev-knob-for-6mm-shaft-bottom-part?optionId=58978906

Now we would only need the right potentiometer, maybe some circuit-board and a new plate for the left Warthog throttle lever. And some specialist that can do it. :smilewink::music_whistling:

And another link here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=160114

Can anyone that used both mod and original sensor tell me what the difference is? Is it just better accuracy? Better feel?

Can anyone that used both mod and original sensor tell me what the difference is? Is it just better accuracy? Better feel?

Both. It’s a lot more accurate and predictable in its movement.

With the original at times you didn’t know what it was going to do.

Deltalphalima, how are you planning on connecting the radar elevation knob? Would it require another USB device?

Can anyone that used both mod and original sensor tell me what the difference is? Is it just better accuracy? Better feel?

Both. The feel and acuity of the replacement far outclass the standard nub.

Can anyone that used both mod and original sensor tell me what the difference is? Is it just better accuracy? Better feel?

Its only about 400% better in every respect :thumbup:

Delta, looking forward to getting my slew/TDC kit.

About the radar elevation mod you are working on: Having been fortunate to work with the real thing for too long that I care to admit (and still "hands-on" at work - in full-up military sims these days), a mod that would replicate how the F-15E works would be great (and apply to other jets as well). On the Mudhen, the radar elevation is a displacement sensor, spring-loaded to center. Looks like a wheel but only the front 180 (?) degree arc (where you little finger touches it) is actually used. The rate of radar elevation change is proportional to the displacement of the "wheel" from center - small displacement from center gives a slow rate of elevation change, while full up/down against the stop moves the elevation rapidly; when you release the up or down displacement the "wheel" snaps back to center and the radar elevation stops moving. It's not a very big movement - Monday I'll see if I can get a value in degrees for the movement up and down. Bottom line, it's not a rotary pot, more a one-axis rate joystick. Not sure if that would be easy to implement.

All that being said, a limited rotary action would work just as well, and probably more accurately represent how radar elevation is controlled in most other aircraft (F-4, F-16, I think; it's been a long time). Most radars are +/- 60 degrees of elevation, so full rotation (to a fixed stop) would give 60 degrees of elevation change. Combine with a soft "detent" on center and it would work nicely for radar work (and gyro gunsight ranging...)

Then again, your lever might be even better! Whatever you come up with I will definitely get!

Finally - in the F-15E the toggle switch on the left side of the left throttle is oriented up/down and spring loaded to center (and has a "Paddle" cover that you can see in the pictures in the later post). Called the "pinkie switch", it controls chaff and flare dispensing. That would be an interesting mod; replace the existing Warthog toggle with a spring loaded (momentary up/down) one and mount it oriented up/down...

Cheers,

Vulture

Kirk, that type of setup would be great for things like the F-18 as its currently modelled in sim, but all the other aircraft in the sim like the F-15, Su27, Mig-29, Mirage etc etc all have absolute position radar elevation controls. So the moment you released the spring loaded axis the radar would return to scanning the horizon, and would only scan up and down when you were actively pushing the control. Unless something can be done to change the function in the sim then a spring loaded wheel might be difficult on other aircraft. Just something to think about.

no, they're all like that - they're all the way kirk describes

Is it just better accuracy? Better feel?

Both!

Only used it a little bit so far, but it's an instantaneous and massive improvement in all regards. Yes, the feel is great, and the accuracy even more so.

I keep thinking, Thrustmaster could have sold something like this as an upgrade, or as a Warthog v2, and many people around here might have gotten one. Not sure why exactly they seem to shy away from a market they used to be a key player in. Anyway, Deltaalphalima1 created a brilliant upgrade and I'm totally looking forward to future upgrades like the envisioned radar elevation mod. :thumbup:

no, they're all like that - they're all the way kirk describes

You mean, IRL or in the sim? My F-15 Radar elevation control is absolute. It tracks the position of axis, if yours works differently i’d Love to know how.

Delta, looking forward to getting my slew/TDC kit.

 

About the radar elevation mod you are working on: Having been fortunate to work with the real thing for too long that I care to admit (and still "hands-on" at work - in full-up military sims these days), a mod that would replicate how the F-15E works would be great (and apply to other jets as well). On the Mudhen, the radar elevation is a displacement sensor, spring-loaded to center. Looks like a wheel but only the front 180 (?) degree arc (where you little finger touches it) is actually used. The rate of radar elevation change is proportional to the displacement of the "wheel" from center - small displacement from center gives a slow rate of elevation change, while full up/down against the stop moves the elevation rapidly; when you release the up or down displacement the "wheel" snaps back to center and the radar elevation stops moving. It's not a very big movement - Monday I'll see if I can get a value in degrees for the movement up and down. Bottom line, it's not a rotary pot, more a one-axis rate joystick. Not sure if that would be easy to implement.

 

All that being said, a limited rotary action would work just as well, and probably more accurately represent how radar elevation is controlled in most other aircraft (F-4, F-16, I think; it's been a long time). Most radars are +/- 60 degrees of elevation, so full rotation (to a fixed stop) would give 60 degrees of elevation change. Combine with a soft "detent" on center and it would work nicely for radar work (and gyro gunsight ranging...)

 

Then again, your lever might be even better! Whatever you come up with I will definitely get!

 

Finally - in the F-15E the toggle switch on the left side of the left throttle is oriented up/down and spring loaded to center (and has a "Paddle" cover that you can see in the pictures in the later post). Called the "pinkie switch", it controls chaff and flare dispensing. That would be an interesting mod; replace the existing Warthog toggle with a spring loaded (momentary up/down) one and mount it oriented up/down...

 

Cheers,

Thanks for that info :thumbup: that sort of knowledge is super helpful to have onboard.

I was planning to make it spring return to centre, thinking mostly for the Hornet, but it’s good to know that it’s not the only aircraft that works that way.

My current though is to make the spring return removable - so if could be used with both absolute position or relative style radars.

Deltalphalima, how are you planning on connecting the radar elevation knob? Would it require another USB device?

nub.

Currently planning to connect to the existing throttle friction slider - although that would mean it would no longer be functional.

Adding an extra USB device it a little more tricky - although I could make that another project and connect both the slew sensor upgrade and an elevation axis to it - thereby getting some extra performance from the slew axis that the throttle currently doesn’t have...

You mean, IRL or in the sim? My F-15 Radar elevation control is absolute. It tracks the position of axis, if yours works differently i’d Love to know how.

real world

real world

Yeah as I mentioned I was talking about how they are noddles in the sim.

Hi, maybe someone can help me.

I recently installed the upgrade but I’m having problem in the X axis, this axis only move in steps not gradually, the Y axis works perfectly. I tried different dead zone, curvatures, etc. but nothing changes. Now I’m using the default values and the same result.

I calibrated again with the provided software in the web page but nothing changes.

In the windows settings the controller work perfectly, reach al the limits always and is very smooth but not in the game.

Any ideas?

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

Works perfectly in any test program like the VPC joystick tester, in the windows device proprieties too. I’m think in a DCS problem.

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

I got my order (#1426) in yesterday and I installed it this morning, no problems what so ever and it works great. It is so much easier to designate targets.

Thank you for the work and making it available to us.

Peter

Deano87,

Real world, F-15E (and probably F-15C) radar elevation control is rate sensor, when released the radar stays at last commanded elevation. I haven't flown a DCS F-15 so can't comment on it. In the F-15E, the WSO controls the radar elevation by holding the trigger on his hand controller to half action, then moving the radar el up on down via TDC forward or aft. Not as easy as the pilot's mech.

As long as the radar elevation stays put when you release the el control, either would work just fine! The only system I didn't like in the various jets I flew/worked on was the F-4E's; it had a position wheel on the hand controller in the WSO cockpit that didn't have a physical stop - when the radar reached max elevation the wheel kept turning without effect. You had to learn how many "rolls" of the wheel resulted in how many degrees of radar elevation change; challenging when head up in a WVR engagement (in the days before auto-acq and VTS!).

Cheers,

Vulture

Hi, maybe someone can help me.

 

I recently installed the upgrade but I’m having problem in the X axis, this axis only move in steps not gradually, the Y axis works perfectly. I tried different dead zone, curvatures, etc. but nothing changes. Now I’m using the default values and the same result.

 

I calibrated again with the provided software in the web page but nothing changes.

 

In the windows settings the controller work perfectly, reach al the limits always and is very smooth but not in the game.

 

Any ideas?

 

If it’s working fine in windows/joytester then it must be some sort of DCS issue - but I don’t think I have seen that issue before. Is it just one aircraft it does it in, can you test it in another and check?

The only thing I can think it that you might have two different controls bound to the slew X function, it might be worth a check that only the throttle slew axis is bound and you don't have any other controls bound to it accidentally.

Deano87,

 

Real world, F-15E (and probably F-15C) radar elevation control is rate sensor, when released the radar stays at last commanded elevation. I haven't flown a DCS F-15 so can't comment on it. In the F-15E, the WSO controls the radar elevation by holding the trigger on his hand controller to half action, then moving the radar el up on down via TDC forward or aft. Not as easy as the pilot's mech.

 

As long as the radar elevation stays put when you release the el control, either would work just fine! The only system I didn't like in the various jets I flew/worked on was the F-4E's; it had a position wheel on the hand controller in the WSO cockpit that didn't have a physical stop - when the radar reached max elevation the wheel kept turning without effect. You had to learn how many "rolls" of the wheel resulted in how many degrees of radar elevation change; challenging when head up in a WVR engagement (in the days before auto-acq and VTS!).

 

Cheers,

 

Vulture

I know how they work IRL. I wasn’t commenting on how they work IRL. I’m specifically talking about how they function in-sim, And in sim they are not rate based. Centre axis position is horizon. One end of axis travel is full up, other end is full down. I understand that this isn’t realistic, but this what we have to work with. So a spring loaded to centre rotary doesn’t work well with 80% of the radars in the sim. The only exception to this rule is the F-18 which is a pig to use precisely because we don’t have a spring loaded axis lol.