Damage modeling of WWII aircraft

I am sure its the nature of the AI, but again, it never hurts to report these.

It probably also has a lot to do with the SFM that the AI use.

I opened a new thread in 1.5 bugs and problems section about this issue.

I am also thinking that the SFM is the reason behind this AI behaviour.

Let' s hope it is possible to make the SFM a little more complex without losing too much frame rate...

No doubt, but at some point we need to make that better :) I am beating the DM drum, trust me :)

:thumbup:

I think that it is the one thing that keeps DCS from being more popular with the WW2 crowd. That and spotting, but we know they are working on spotting right now.

No doubt, but at some point we need to make that better :) I am beating the DM drum, trust me :)

I wasn't being critical, just clarifying. I know this is on your personal list as well. :)

:thumbup:

I think that it is the one thing that keeps DCS from being more popular with the WW2 crowd.

Huh?? You mean that and the complete lack of a WW2 theatre to fly in? Don't get me wrong, I'm a patient type, I can wait.

Simple truism: DCS will be more popular with the 'WW2 crowd' when there is a WW2 theatre to fly in.

That is the 'one thing'.

It isn't just one problem keeping WW2 fans away, it's several. But damage modeling is pretty high on the list for me and those I've spoken with on TS3 and other WW2 CFS forums. The lack of content (maps, AI units and so on) is another major issue. But the thing about updating the damage modeling is, it helps the game as a whole. It's just as important to a UH-1 as it is to a Bf-109 and so is something the whole community can get behind. So I give it higher priority even if a lack of content is a bigger issue for the WW2 side of things.

But damage modeling is pretty high on the list for me.

When I first bought the P-51, I flew the SP mission to take down a transport a/c and was stunned to see a 1 second burst carve the wing off. As though my six .50 cals were a sidewinder amraam. Then I flew against the Fw190 which was obviously built from six-inch armour plate and my .50cals were hopelessly inadequate.

So I see your point. Maybe by the time we get a Normandy map, such anomalies will be resolved to an acceptable level.

I have a question in regards to the damage model. I have been flying both the P-51D and the 109 K4 since the day they were released. In that time, I've been totally shredded in both of those aircraft by all types of guns. However, to this day (2/7/17) I have not once had the cockpit glass in my 109 shot out, I have never had the gun site knocked out with. Also, I have never had my guns get damaged eliminating my ability to fight on.

Every time, I fly the P-51D I get my cockpit shot out at least once, and in turn knocks out my gun site and bullets in the wing mean no guns on that side.

Concerning the cockpit could this be the cause.

Copied from DCS damage Lua files

Every other plane:

["COCKPIT"] = {critical_damage = 1, args = {189}},

["CABIN_LEFT_SIDE"] = {critical_damage = 2, args = {189}},

["CABIN_RIGHT_SIDE"] = {critical_damage = 2, args = {153}},

Bf-109 K4 Damage Lua:

["COCKPIT"] = {critical_damage = 1, args = {189}},

-- TODO

Thanks,

For a few months now in the 109, hits to the radiators create a non-visible leak that leads to overheating within about 5-10 minutes and then engine seizure. I have had this happen several times. Prop pitch has become more durable but frequently goes out and I have also lost the gunsight several times as well. As for the other planes I have plenty of video of player flown 51s and spits taking hit after hit, spewing smoke and still maneuvering and fighting as if not damaged. The damage model for all the planes needs to be redone and is being redone.

+1 I also don't think that the P-51 MG are as bad as you like to make out.

Oops, I guess I should have read up on the forum FAQ before posting, didn't realize name dropping other products would get my post deleted. My bad.

That being said, I agree that in multiplayer the WWII DM is much better than against AI in single or co-op. It gets pretty frustrating when you dump all of your ammo into an AI opponent, only to have him turn the tables on you and take you out as if he's sustained no damage whatsoever.

Any tips on flying WWII birds against AI with the current DM? Is there something I can set in the mission parameters perhaps?

Any tips on flying WWII birds against AI with the current DM? Is there something I can set in the mission parameters perhaps?

Shoot their wings off. Pretty much best way to deal with AI currently.

Shoot their wings off. Pretty much best way to deal with AI currently.

Yepp. Otherwise they can be totally clobbered, smoking, missing ailerons and elevators and still fly rings around you, instantly gain or lose energy. This is just ridiculous. I'm really looking forward to the new DM.

This was discussed before and looks like it will be very cool when implemented, hopefully around when Normandy comes out.

Quick Recap

When we talking about model itself the new model is an addition to current one. So the main difference in number of components and accuracy of their positions. Plus improvements in damage states and their spread (for example fire) from one component to another.

Some answers:

- yes, we have few men from old Il-2 team ))

- old P-51B could be there, but later;

- new DM has no affect on cockpit;

- bombers are in production as an AI planes (for the moment);

- LN mentioned their plans by themselves, better to ask them directly;

- DM is a brand new system which could be applied to any unit in the game.

Are there any details more, to share with us?

 

Say, plans to:

a) simulate penetration of several modules by a single projectile

b) introduce altered impact behavior, depended on the load (HE/AP) => surface/submerged explosions, ricochets where applicable

c) internal/external fuel tank flame bursts or varied leakage rates depended on hits number/their nature

d) hydraulic fails - drop out chassis, etc

e) stun effects on the pilot (HE "close call" impact)

f) realistic dynamics for damaged planes, including their rapid re-balancing due to pierced tanks/any massive parts departed. Inability to withstand high Gs for their frame any more (where it's appropriate)

g) inflammation that gradually affects plane

 

A digression: I'm not poking developers to do this right from the beginning in some stealthy manner - just wonder what depth are you willing to take?

a) Yes, including true calculation of armour-piercing ability (at least for the first 1-2 walls where experimental results are available to extend for the model). Fragmentation field patterns, etc...

b) yes

c) yes

d) hydrolics can be damaged even now, but it will work regarding its design for each plane - so there will be no undercarriage drop if the up-locks are mechanically driven. Possibly, with the new DM hydrolics will get more detailed damages, say, the pump, the left gear tubing, etc...

e) do not know yet

f) all these features work now. If the main spar is damaged - yes it will lower max G-load.

g) I remember that Racoon answered positive.

 

New damage model with images

Great... I wrote that it's especially annoying to fight against WWII AI planes (both 109 and Mustang) because they can have a 100 bullet holes, be missing ailerons and elevators, smoking black and white, yet they still magically gain energy out of nowhere or lose it in a blink of an eye if they wish so, and kick your @ss. So unless you shoot off a wing it's a waste of bullets.

hardly anything personal here.

I really can't wait for the DM update.

- old P-51B could be there, but later;

any more detailed information about it, please :helpsmilie:

If it is as good as they make us think, it will be a big game changer for the allies. HMGs and MGs will finaly hit with kinetic energy able to penetrate puncture and set afire planes knocking out planes from combat even if they can still fly, they won't be able to keep flying for long forcing them to run. I really wonder if the hail of fire from a P47 can slap a 109 around. It was reported to be able to tip over train wagons from the side. :)

109 will probably suffer a bit from lower MG131 effectiveness, but Mk108 will stay the same or becomes more powerful when it hits something like a wing root or tail. But we are already used to getting one-shoted so that will make little difference for us.

190 will loose mg131 effectiveness but MG151 might become more leathal with shots to wing tips and control surfaces. What ammo is going to be modeled? Minengeshoss or APHE, HEIT?

30mm One hitting? What reality are you living in and how do I get there?

30mm One hitting? What reality are you living in and how do I get there?

The same one I am in, you can definitely one shot currently with a 30mm... There are plenty of videos showing it.

It is most certainly an exception. I'm sorry but yesterday 3 times alone I shot P-51s with 30mm and they just smoke a little and fly on home. I have a video somewhere of a P-51 absorbing 5 30mm hits in the tail and being just fine (admittedly also an outlier). Generally it takes about 2 or 3 to kill an enemy. In my experience Spits are a bit more believable than Mustangs in this area. Is it possible to one hit? Sure. But it rarely ever happens.

I fly both sides, and single hit kills happen in all planes, against all planes. I've also seen Mustangs swallow 30 mms like candies. I've also shot down FW190s with a short burst of .50 cals. It's definitely not biased, just messed up.

The thing is, right now you really have to rip a wing off, especially against the AI. For this, the 30mm is by far the best weapon. When we get the new DM there will be more ways to down a plane, and .50 cals will become more useful.