[UNABLE TO REPRODUCE]Ka-50 Banking Right Bug!

Hello.

steam version.

Public open beta

Started after last weekend update

I was suspecting that my joystick wasn't calibrated right or that it had an issue. I disconnected all the HOTAS and pedals altogether just to be sure. Did file integrity check on steam which came good. and made a quick mission by the mission editor to fly hot from the runway with no wind what so ever (which is by default). I also rested the controls for the Ka-50. and the test begun:

Flew by the keyboard only, and to see the issue/bug I only used the up and down arrows and the + and - for collective.

So once I takeoff and after picking up speed above 100km the issue start and I saw it banking right about 15-20 deg. with or without trim, with or without AP channels activated!

Me and my other 2 friends have same issue which I remeber it to have started after the last weekend update that has fixed the weapon stations light for the shkval.

Find attached tracks.

KA-50 Banking Right Bug!!!.trk

KA-50 Banking Right Bug 2!!!.trk

I never had such issues and all the ppl also flying the ka50 i know havent said anything like that. have you Always been using the Keyboard to fly the kamov ?

I never had such issues and all the ppl also flying the ka50 i know havent said anything like that. have you Always been using the Keyboard to fly the kamov ?

All the people who fly the ka-50 with me are also affected! And I'm affected when I'm flying with both the HOTAS and Pedals and the keyboard was just a test... as you can clearly read above.

:D interesting, i just figured i cant read. Weird stuff.

Have you also tried in Coldstart ?

edit: im asking because i just tired out your Mission, from hotstart and the System is told to go bank Right from the beginning on so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ , and i tried to trimm with exactly your Mission and it act s like normal for me, Weird

This photo Shows your KA50´s HSI from your Hotsatrt Track file nr1 (wich gets lost in watching replay but is physically there :) when you make it a miz and fly yourself )

So ?

Aslo there is a thread where ppl are discussing probably the same Thing https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=266267

Remarks : im conf this has Always been like this but Maybe ed adjusted the FM and it is now acting more authentic, who knows all i can say is its acting normal for me. i think i made my Point lol, gn8

Aslo there is a thread where ppl are discussing probably the same Thing https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=266267

Remarks : im conf this has Always been like this but Maybe ed adjusted the FM and it is now acting more authentic, who knows all i can say is its acting normal for me. i think i made my Point lol, gn8

Well you have been very helpful telling me about a thread I started, let's leave it to ED please.

Well you have been very helpful telling me about a thread I started, let's leave it to ED please.

Yep just wanted you to read the Replys again.

Anyways i couldnt find anything in your track wich was a "bug" yeah lets see what ED sys :P

Do it just bank to the right or does it turn also? Mine bank to the right at high speeds but it don't turn.

It does bank and turn which is very weird. I think your AP trim is what is making it not able to turn on you...

Tried the mission, only trimmed pitch for take off, around 50kph the helicopter starts banking. Turned around, tried again, same right bank.

Both rotor disks IRL provide different amounts of lift, so dissymmetry of lift could be a factor now. Remember the Ka-50 flight model is/was over a decade old and it wouldn't be the first new feature that isn't mentioned in the change log.

Shouldn't cause any problems since you need to trim after a speed change anyways.

Tried the mission, only trimmed pitch for take off, around 50kph the helicopter starts banking. Turned around, tried again, same right bank.

 

 

Both rotor disks IRL provide different amounts of lift, so dissymmetry of lift could be a factor now. Remember the Ka-50 flight model is/was over a decade old and it wouldn't be the first new feature that isn't mentioned in the change log.

 

Shouldn't cause any problems since you need to trim after a speed change anyways.

^^^^^^^^^^

yeah i trim alot i get used to that already so Maybe thats why im thinking everything is just normal :D

Hi,

I also notice that right roll tendency as the helo picks up some speed.

I didn't fly a lot of missions/in a lot of different conditions, and I'm not very familiar with the helicopter and its flight characteristics.

I made a video that shows that right bank behavior.

From take-off to cruise flight. Flight controls inputs displayed.

Custom mission.

no wind

no turbulence

20°C OAT

FARP ALT 528m ASL

QNH 760 mmHg

(still processing, 1440p available soon)

I was going to provide a track file but somehow it's always the same track of a single player mission I played weeks ago. Maybe I shouldn't launch the mission from the ME? Might try again later.

Reproducing is really easy (empty mission, no wind, hot start):

Just fly straight and level at around 100kph and watch the controls indicator. You'll see a bit of left trim is required.

Now trim the nose down to -15° without moving the X-axis. As you accelerate the helicopter will start banking right.

Same thing also works in reverse:

Trim for straight and level flight at 200kph and pull up to decelerate. As speed decreases the helicopter will start banking left.

It's rather obvious if you watch the angle difference between aircraft datum and pitch ladder.

@Bourrinopathe

in your video you can clearly see that the ball is demanding far more right pedal than you are using. not having the ball centred will cause roll in that direction.

so to the right.

but why a counter rotating helicopter is demanding so much power pedal like a helicopter with a tail rotor fighting torque. is the interesting question.

if you actually put in the pedal that she demands she seems to point off unnaturally to the right. instead of rolling.

also in this Video i cant see anything wrong :D

@Bourrinopathe

 

in your video you can clearly see that the ball is demanding far more right pedal than you are using. not having the ball centred will cause roll in that direction.

so to the right.

but why a counter rotating helicopter is demanding so much power pedal like a helicopter with a tail rotor fighting torque. is the interesting question.

if you actually put in the pedal that she demands she seems to point off unnaturally to the right. instead of rolling.

This is very similar to what I'm seeing and talking about in the related thread. If I set the Shark up for straight and level flight, it's side-slipping (mainly) left, and looking at the control indicator, to even get it into that level condition, it has to be trimmed with the stick significantly to the left.

But as mentioned, there's no obvious reason why any of that should happen, and nothing in the change log that would suggest a flight model change that would cause it to be the new normal. To make matters worse, it also only seems to be a intermittent issue: when I tried the air start shooting range mission for NTTR, it started out flying all straight but somewhere along the line as the mission progressed, it decided that this was boring and instead slipped into that right-tilt/left-slide/left-trim flying state.

This will be an annoying one to track down… :D

Many of us have probably been flying the Kamov for YEARS like this, without ever noticing this.

Just seems like a slight variation in the control rigging to me. The neutral longitudinal position for the rotors just coincides with a very small amount of left cyclic (and a tiny amount of right pedal), likely this would be due to imperfections in the mechanical and electronic linkages.

I can remember a specific airplane in the fleet that would require just a small amount of right rudder in cruise flight.

As with many things in DCS (and I think it could be argued this is accurate to RL) "just trim it out bro."

I can see how this is an issue for keyboard users.. but for everybody else I'm sure our Russian mechanics would close the discrepancy "within limits, Ops check good. AC okay for service (in Cyrillic)" :)

I'm seeing the off-centred ball also, so if the flight model hasn't been changed, could it be an initial aircraft trim setting, possibly not even designed for choppers and/or that has no mapping to be synchronised with controllers, that has been inadvertently set up oddly?

This is me trimmed for forward flight at 220kph. Hot start, no wind, no external stores, 100% fuel and cannon ammo, no mods.

As you can see on the control indicator I have to apply left cyclic + right rudder. Am I doing something wrong?

Again: not that it matters since you're trimming frequently anyways, but it would be nice to know if this is a bug or a flight model update leaking into the OB branch. Wouldn't be the first time something like this happened.

That's exactly how my control indicator looks in S&L trimmed forward flight. Little bit of left stick and right pedal.

I'm okay with this never being "fixed."

That's exactly how my control indicator looks in S&L trimmed forward flight. Little bit of left stick and right pedal.

 

 

I'm okay with this never being "fixed."

Maybe mine too ^^ i never had tha tcontrol indicator opened. Maybe thats why i dont recognized the "bug" lol

No one having two (or more) versions installed to test this out even further?

I have 1.5.7 and latest OB and even BS 1.0.2 installed, but not in a position to test myself for a while.

But when you mentioned it, I do feel that the nose has to point to the left in trimmed flight (ball centered). If it's a new behavior I can't say though.

someone take a snapshot of the mi-8 at 220kph level cruise.

would be interesting to see if it needs more or less pedal.