WW2 multiplayer preferences?

Think of it this way, if people want to fly WW2 planes and get into the action quick, there's any number of options out there: War Thunder, Cliffs of Dover, BoS, etc. What makes DCS unique is that 100% of the plane's systems are accurately modeled, and have to be used correctly. That's why we're all here, despite DCS' obvious shortcomings as a WW2 game.

As Echo explains, some of us enjoy quick action in an aircraft that's modeled as realistically as possible. Some of the other sims are good, but not quite DCS. I'm addicted to clickable pits. If I can't work 95% of the switches and knobs in the cockpit with the mouse I am unimpressed.

P.S. Thanks for flying with me earlier today.:thumbup:

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So, I have two maps to share with you all that take your comments into consideration. You can download them here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=144656

Feel free to do whatever you like with them, change them, host them, etc.

As Echo explains, some of us enjoy quick action in an aircraft that's modeled as realistically as possible. Some of the other sims are good, but not quite DCS. I'm addicted to clickable pits. If I can't work 95% of the switches and knobs in the cockpit with the mouse I am unimpressed.

 

P.S. Thanks for flying with me earlier today.:thumbup:

 

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So, I have two maps to share with you all that take your comments into consideration. You can download them here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=144656

 

Feel free to do whatever you like with them, change them, host them, etc.

Isn't there an auto-start command for anyone wishing to speed through it? I've created one ground attack mission where the Dora's were preloaded with bombs and running because realistically they would be loaded in advanced to begin with in real life. I did it that way so groups could easily takeoff together and keep formation if they like. I really don't care either way but I've seen people try to fly online without any basic understanding of the functions of their plane and atleast requiring startup forces them to learn that portion of the aircraft.

Isn't there an auto-start command for anyone wishing to speed through it?

 

I've seen people try to fly online without any basic understanding of the functions of their plane and atleast requiring startup forces them to learn that portion of the aircraft.

Yes, there is an auto-start cheat/aid; no, only putting cold-start aircraft in the mission doesn't actually force people to learn to start their aircraft, because of said cheat/aid, which is not disable-able server-side. The game-crowd cannot be forced to manually start, as long as the cheat/aid is hard-coded to be always available.

There are two other problems with forcing all aircraft to cold-start on a quick-action mission. Firstly, the warmup time means that people will literally be spending more time on the ground than in combat, whether or not they use the cheat. Secondly, the hardcore sim-crowd isn't going to use the cheat/aid (because it violates the simulation), and so are going to have to spend even more time on the ground (due to failed starts) than the game-crowd using the cheat. This gives the latter an unfair & unrealistic advantage over the former, and--from a competitive PoV--results in an overall situation which is less realistic than forcing everyone to spawn in engine-running airplanes.

Having the option of getting into aircraft which have already been started & warmed up by the ground crew, on the other hand, is a way of getting into the air quickly, without violating the realism of the simulation (whereas having it done by magic, via the auto-start cheat/aid, does reduce the realism). If both cold starts and warmed-up engines are available in the mission, then everyone in the sim-crowd has a realistic option to get going the way they want to--quickly, or methodically.

Yes, there is an auto-start cheat/aid; no, only putting cold-start aircraft in the mission doesn't actually force people to learn to start their aircraft, because of said cheat/aid, which is not disable-able server-side. The game-crowd cannot be forced to manually start, as long as the cheat/aid is hard-coded to be always available.

 

There are two other problems with forcing all aircraft to cold-start on a quick-action mission. Firstly, the warmup time means that people will literally be spending more time on the ground than in combat, whether or not they use the cheat. Secondly, the hardcore sim-crowd isn't going to use the cheat/aid (because it violates the simulation), and so are going to have to spend even more time on the ground (due to failed starts) than the game-crowd using the cheat. This gives the latter an unfair & unrealistic advantage over the former, and--from a competitive PoV--results in an overall situation which is less realistic than forcing everyone to spawn in engine-running airplanes.

 

Having the option of getting into aircraft which have already been started & warmed up by the ground crew, on the other hand, is a way of getting into the air quickly, without violating the realism of the simulation (whereas having it done by magic, via the auto-start cheat/aid, does reduce the realism). If both cold starts and warmed-up engines are available in the mission, then everyone in the sim-crowd has a realistic option to get going the way they want to--quickly, or methodically.

This. +++

This has all been done before, folks. I'm sure a lot of us on this board flew (are still flying?) IL2 for a decade or more. Warclouds, BoP, Greater Green, Sp vs 109s, etc were all successful for years because they catered to the virtual player that had an hour or two to kill on a Sunday afternoon, and that player could be guaranteed to get into many a scrap during that time. If y'all want 30-60 player servers again you NEED to offer that kind of gameplay. I've gotten several friends that have played a ton of War Thunder to try DCS and were right amazed at how superior the flight model felt, but there's not enough *game* in the sim to keep them here. Warmed-up planes and maps that offer both ground and air superiority objectives in a 4-8 minute flight time max distance are critical components that all-important Sunday afternoon crowd.

Now, the hard-core simmer reading this is already scoffing, but here's why this is important to him/her as well: Those Sunday afternoon folks are the ones that are going to get interested enough to join that other wonderful phenomena from the IL2 era: the full-sim persistent war server. If you've never flown Ghost Skies in IL2 then you were really missing out, and that's what y'all are going to be interested in. But that kind of commitment is very intimidating to the new pilot... very few (way too few) will ever go straight to it from picking up the sim. Even the majority of people flying on those popular full-switch servers I mentioned above came from noob Wonder Woman servers first.

IMHO, the sim MUST provide a substantial online experience that's a step between War Thunder and the cold start crowd. Look to the past, folks. IL2 figured this out, and for *years* had full servers by offering cutting-edge flight simulation along with approachability. DCS is worlds ahead in flight simulation, but we've lost the approachability. We need it back.

There's a reason the pro sports have minor leagues.

Good post @ nervousenergy.

Gavagai, I believe your results are skewed because most people who reply on this forum are more hardcore than the average user. What name or title do you use for your server? What hours do you usually have it up?

Everyone says they want 100% realism but every time I get in multiplayer most of the people are too lazy to taxi to the end of a runway for take off. Especially, in WW2 servers. As soon as, the engines are fired, full throttle to take off.

I think if you want bigger numbers, have the area of operation around 5 minutes away. Most of us suck and flying 15 minutes in an over-matched plane to get shot down in 3 turns is demoralizing after multiple tries. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Have the area around the airfields covered in AA so you can't get near the opposing field. It sucks to go through start after start up just to get vulched.

Turn the map icons on for everything but no labels. The spotting is just not good enough and it can still be a chore to actually find the bandit. In reality, we would all be flying in a group with Comms and know the general direction of the enemy. All the while, receiving updates from other groups. Online most fly lone wolf due to time constraints on real life.

Is it possible for ramp start up on one airfield and runway start on another?

Teamspeak should be optional. Every time I bother getting into teamspeak (on DCS) either nobody is there or it is just a couple of people blabbering on. We don't want a play by play of your flight with incorrect military jargon interspersed.

These are just my opinions, I am not trying to be a heretic.

What I'd really like is a server that has limited visual aid for planes. What I mean by that is that instead of plane name and distance the only thing that would be displayed is a single ascii character.

For example:

at 4000m you would see '

at 2000m you would see *

at 1000m you would see O

at 500m the visual aid would disappear

The colour of the characters would be dark grey, for both allies and enemies. I've tested this in single player and it works pretty well.

What I'd really like is a server that has limited visual aid for planes. What I mean by that is that instead of plane name and distance the only thing that would be displayed is a single ascii character.

 

For example:

at 4000m you would see '

at 2000m you would see *

at 1000m you would see O

at 500m the visual aid would disappear

 

The colour of the characters would be dark grey, for both allies and enemies. I've tested this in single player and it works pretty well.

this is really good idea

this is really good idea

But can't be done.

Labels are client sided, everyone can adjust the labels he wants to see.

The server can only allow/restrict labels in general.

Nervous Energy and Nascar,

I agree that the thread might be a bit skewed. At this point I would join any WW2 server that was actually populated, but they are always empty. Settings matter less and less to me; just having a populated map is what matters.

We do not need labels. The hunt is part of the deal. Pilots flying patrol sorties did not always find the enemy.

I've gotten several friends that have played a ton of War Thunder to try DCS and were right amazed at how superior the flight model felt, but there's not enough *game* in the sim to keep them here.

But, removing the "simulation" of DCS, adding labels, externals, air start, 3 min flights... a la those il-2 "Skyes'ofsomething" servers, what left is not is not match for War Thunder modes, easiness, visuals, etc.

CloD online still "alive" just because the major of existing servers (at least the populated ones) are "hardcore". The people that play this "dead" game, do just because off good simulation allowed - with his "2 clicks" click'pits. :P

To play "Fun4all" nothing beating WT. :D

Those Sunday afternoon folks are the ones that are going to get interested enough to join that other wonderful phenomena from the IL2 era: the full-sim persistent war server. If you've never flown Ghost Skies in IL2 then you were really missing out, and that's what y'all are going to be interested in.

The CloD version of this is Storm of War at Sundays are always full and are "hardcore".

To compete with War Thunder is need do a new - and better War Thunder - in what the BoS failed.

Startup options: Cold start and engine running. No air starts.

Map Settings (F10): All aircrafts visible in a big/medium map.

Visibility aids: No icons.

Weather: A mix of: rain or snow, mild/medium winds (to prevent distant sniping). Raising sun or sunset.

Objectives: A mix of eveything. And bombers intercept (with escort).

TS availability: Yes, but can generate 3vs1 situation.

AI aircraft: Yes, in some dedicated areas. Or during quiet hours.

I'm flying on JG27 today and it actually has settings that are similar to what many here are looking for, especially the shorter times to find combat. However, some will find the settings challenging because there are no map icons, no labels, and no flak to help you spot the enemy.

Anyway, having a good time right now if anyone is interested.

What about use the labels MOD, with ' over planes and * over ground targets instead the big banner commonly used on "CFS"?

What about use the labels MOD, with ' over planes and * over ground targets instead the big banner commonly used on "CFS"?

As the others said above, unfortunately a server can only enforce whether labels are on or off, the use of any label mods are client side. So while you may use a mod and see a dot, comma or an asterisk symbol other players will see full label ('big banner').

ACG/JG27 mod is truly great.:thumbup:

As the others said above, unfortunately a server can only enforce whether labels are on or off, the use of any label mods are client side. So while you may use a mod and see a dot, comma or an asterisk symbol other players will see full label ('big banner').

 

For the 9JG27 server, DavidRed had made a LoD mod that makes contacts stand out more and visible further than the default LoDs. Whilst it isn't as clear as labels it does make a subtle difference and I'd highly recommend trying it. The mod is currently accepted on the ACG server (uses same mod by another name) and on burning skies afaik and for any that don't, it takes a second to disable/enable via JSGME. For those that haven't installed mods before or used JSGME I made this video guide:

 

I tried the mod.

It's not perfect, but it's definitively an improvement over vanilla DCS.