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F18 or F14, which is easier to fly


razza1974

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The real question should be which aircraft would be more fun to fly and why?

 

Every jet fighter jock here should really try the WWII birds DCS has to offer. IMO it will make em a better virtual pilot in any of the modern jets, especially those that lack "real" FBW systems like

the F14.

 

I for one can't wait for both modules. Im buying both as soon as they hit early access with a solid release date. But I won't lie to you. The F14 is my dream jet. Im going to live in it for a while :)

 

I think that the best a jet jock can do is fly the F-86/MiG-15. Do you want to have total control of your jet? There you go. Want to go 500 knots, 1000 closing on your target? Go for it. Oh yeah, you've got the same guns used in WW2, no search radar, and no fly by wire. Have fun.

 

The F-14 has always been my jet, since I was a kid. A close second is the A-6 Intruder, which I only fly in DCS when I get into an Su-25T and squint a lot. The next few months are going to be hard on me, because I don't want to be okay at two jets, but good at one jet. As much as I want the Hornet because it looks so well done...I'm holding out for the Tomcat.

 

In the meantime, I get to pretend that the Su-33 is a nerfed Tomcat.

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I suspect the Tomcat will be the more "fun" and rewarding aircraft to fly.

 

I spoke with one particularly interesting pilot. He originally was a F-14 pilot (VF-11 and VF-32) flying the F-14B around 2000. He then did an exchange tour with the USAF flying F-15C's out at Kadena, Okinawa and then returned to the Navy in time for VF-32 to transition to the F/A-18F. He said the Tomcat was more fun and had a more raw, visceral, pure adrenaline pumping power that you were very much aware was akin to holding a tiger by the tail..meaning if you let it go, it'll kill you.

He found the Hornet much easier and carefree to fly, and found that he became better at BFM/ACM in it because he was able to focus more on tactics rather than having to manhandle the plane *and* try to focus on tactics..however the thrill was gone for the most part because of how easy the Super Hornet is to fly and how remote it feels from the pilot.

 

He found the F-15C to be more akin to the Tomcat..very raw, very powerful, slightly easier to fly, but disliked the USAF's focus on stupid silly details and found the "fun" element of the job was lacking in the USAF, despite how great of a plane the F-15 is to fly.

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well The Hornet will be a Multi mission Plane. It will offer in the long run more than just a A2A dedicated platform. You arent in control of the Aircraft like a F14, but the F18 is a nimbler plane and will be particularly deadly in WVR given it can pull Really High AOA even at low speeds, and to top it off will have HMCS with the 9x. because of those itl be arguably more deadly than a MIg29 or Su27 If it gets into close range.

 

Still no Viper... But hey im not complaining. :D

 

 

F14 not even featured ;)


Edited by Kev2go

 

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Easier: Hornet

Fun: Both

 

You gonna have a good time with the Hornet, flying different types of missions, carrier ops, etc.

 

The Tomcat still gonna take some time to be release (Q4 2018?) so you gonna have plenty of time to learn the Hornet and decide if you wanna learn a new aircraft.

 

And +1 Viper Club.

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Easier: Hornet

Fun: Both

 

You gonna have a good time with the Hornet, flying different types of missions, carrier ops, etc.

 

The Tomcat still gonna take some time to be release (Q4 2018?) so you gonna have plenty of time to learn the Hornet and decide if you wanna learn a new aircraft.

 

And +1 Viper Club.

 

Q4 2018? Where did you get THAT from? Late spring is my most pessimistic alternative. It seems to be at least as finished as the Hornet.

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Q4 2018? Where did you get THAT from? Late spring is my most pessimistic alternative. It seems to be at least as finished as the Hornet.

 

Unless I missed some videos, there's been nothing released on the Tomcat that shows anything related to actually operating the module. The Hornet has had what, three "Get To Know" videos plus some (admittedly minor) weapons employment and that damn sexy river flight.

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Unless I missed some videos, there's been nothing released on the Tomcat that shows anything related to actually operating the module. The Hornet has had what, three "Get To Know" videos plus some (admittedly minor) weapons employment and that damn sexy river flight.

 

i think you are right. we still haven't seen anything that can make us say "it is happening" yet

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Great question. :)

 

In terms of stick and rudder activities, the F-14 certainly takes more time to learn than the Hornet. That said, it's certainly not an unruly beast to fly. It was stable and well mannered in normal flight with some gotchas that you need to account for at high AOA. But compared to other modern fighters in DCS (like the F-5E or F-15C, non-FBW jets) it feels pretty similar except that it is a bit less responsive in pitch and roll during normal operations. There is a sense of inertia when initiating pitch, but big inputs get the nose moving quickly (and potentially building AOA quickly so don't just pull the stick into your lap and leave it there). However, its pitch rate can match the Mirage and F-15C (and exceed the rate of both at speeds less than 350 knots), so performance is excellent.

 

Roll is also much more stable than the F-5E or F-15C in that it takes bigger inputs to generate significant roll rate and max roll rate is slower than either of those. Also, depending on speed, stores, and G-loads you will see either proverse or adverse yaw during roll. It is generally not something that requires compensation, you just might notice it during maneuvers.

 

One of the gotchas is control reversal at high AOA - once AOA reaches the 20s or so, left stick will generally result in rolling right. The key is that above 20 units AOA you use the rudders to roll and this works great. However, if you don't turn off roll SAS before starting these maneuvers and try and rudder roll, SAS will try to cross control the aircraft and a departure is fairly likely. You need to set-up the jet for ACM with a couple of system settings (like the SAS system).

 

Landing the F-14 is really fun though! :) The aircraft likes to slide around laterally on approach and roll inputs generate adverse yaw followed by the desired lateral movement. The aircraft also requires frequent adjustments to the glideslope since it likes to float (it has a ton of lift in the landing configuration). On the other hand, you can really slam it onto the deck and don't have to worry about flaring. I'm a Heatblur F-14 tester so I've spent a lot of time in the module and tried to land the F-5E recently - blew both tires. :music_whistling:

So staying on course requires some effort/attention, but touchdowns are easy.

 

[Great stuff snipped for brevity]

 

Best,

 

Nick

 

Blacklion,

 

Just curious, did you fly a DFCS equipped jet? If so, how would you describe the changes it made to the aforementioned high AOA and landing characteristics? Also, how would you compare a DFCS equipped jet compared to the Bug or the Eagle? Finally, how much of the fun would modeling the system take out of flying the sim?

 

Thanks

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  • 8 months later...

He found the F-15C to be more akin to the Tomcat..very raw, very powerful, slightly easier to fly, but disliked the USAF's focus on stupid silly details and found the "fun" element of the job was lacking in the USAF, despite how great of a plane the F-15 is to fly.

 

I flew with a Marine in Iraq who said it perfectly, "The Dash One you blue suiters use tells you everything you CAN do while my NATOPS tells me everything I CAN'T do, I like my way better because if it isn't expressly forbidden it's fair game."

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I flew with a Marine in Iraq who said it perfectly, "The Dash One you blue suiters use tells you everything you CAN do while my NATOPS tells me everything I CAN'T do, I like my way better because if it isn't expressly forbidden it's fair game."

 

That is so true, and it captures the mentality of Naval Aviation. Additionally, we all see NATOPS as procedures, but not as a substitute for common sense. In other words, if you need to deviate from NATOPS, you can, but be sure you can justify why you did it.

 

Case in point, when I was going through Joint Undergrad Navigator Training (JUNT) at Randolph AFB, we had our aircraft checklist and then cardstock pages of the approach plates we used for our simulator missions. We would normally put the cardstock in with our blue-brains after the aircraft section so we would have both handy. There was a Navy instructor-in-training who had the great idea of putting the cardstock inbetween the normal procedures and the emergency procedures so he could very easily see where the EPs were if he needed to get to them. He was downed by his instructor because he split his aircraft checklist with non-checklist items, despite there being a very good reason for what he did.

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Hornet = Science

Tomcat = Art

 

Both are science it's just 1 of them is science from 10 years later :P

 

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Hornet flown by Canadians, true. Also true but leftout, Tomcat flown by Iranians...which is worse?:P

 

 

 

Also left out that hornet does have a couple of mig kills under its belt. And was able to do it whilst laden with bombs ( without dropping them) and afterwords still proceeded to complete its primary strike mission

 

What's also left out is that the hornet outlived the tomcat in service.

 

 

But hey thats the point of these sort of 1 sided fanboy memes :P

 

Reminds me of one I saw re a10 and f35.


Edited by Kev2go

 

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Also left out that hornet does have a couple of mig kills under its belt. And was able to do it whilst laden with bombs ( without dropping them) and afterwords still proceeded to complete its primary strike mission

 

 

Well, for what it's worth the F-14 got somewhere between 35 and 45 kills for Iran depending on the source, most of which were MiGs and Mirage F1s. Both Tomcat and Hornet pretty decent platforms.

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  • 1 month later...
Maybe for you since it's quick and runs out of gas in no time :)

 

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FC3 | UH-1 | Mi-8 | A-10C II | F/A-18 | Ka-50 III | F-14 | F-16 | AH-64 Mi-24 | F-5 | F-15E| F-4| Tornado

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