Valve Index Hands On

Compared to the Index, which is the performance that you are getting with the Reverb?

Performance was really similar on the Index and Reverb. I had StemVR SS set to 204 on the Index, and use 150 on the Reverb.

Performance was really similar on the Index and Reverb. I had StemVR SS set to 204 on the Index, and use 150 on the Reverb.

But having less SS you can increase the graphic settings. Maybe the same FPS but better quality...

But having less SS you can increase the graphic settings. Maybe the same FPS but better quality...

Not necessarily, there are a lot more pixels to push around!

Not necessarily, there are a lot more pixels to push around!

Certainly... compared to index, now you are getting a cleaner view of the MFDs and so on?

After 5 days of fiddling around, I'm returning my Index. The resolution, the sweet spot... they are just not enough. Not by far, if you compare with a standard 24" 1080p monitor!

And DCS performances with just some AA and lowest possible shadows are just ridiculous.

Advice to all of the people seeking info about the Index with DCS in this thread: if you can (I couldn't), try the Index before you buy, the marketing and fanboysm around this device is overwhelming.

I believed the review, tried in first person (this was my first VR experience, so with all the enthusiasm of this world). Very disappointed.

Certainly... compared to index, now you are getting a cleaner view of the MFDs and so on?

Interested in this too. Mfds, labels in the consoles, aircrafts 10 meters away... all things that the resolution of the index makes an awful mess of blurry pixels.

Certainly... compared to index, now you are getting a cleaner view of the MFDs and so on?

Cleaner? Yes. Not a dramtic difference, but enough to sway me back to the Reverb.

However, as I have said many times, the Index is a better headset in lots of ways. If only the (currently very good) resolution was a bit better, it would blow the Reverb out of the water.

Cleaner? Yes. Not a dramtic difference, but enough to sway me back to the Reverb.

 

However, as I have said many times, the Index is a better headset in lots of ways. If only the (currently very good) resolution was a bit better, it would blow the Reverb out of the water.

And what about the immersion? I feel that the index amazing in this aspect.

After 5 days of fiddling around, I'm returning my Index. The resolution, the sweet spot... they are just not enough. Not by far, if you compare with a standard 24" 1080p monitor!

 

And DCS performances with just some AA and lowest possible shadows are just ridiculous.

 

Advice to all of the people seeking info about the Index with DCS in this thread: if you can (I couldn't), try the Index before you buy, the marketing and fanboysm around this device is overwhelming.

 

I believed the review, tried in first person (this was my first VR experience, so with all the enthusiasm of this world). Very disappointed.

 

 

 

Interested in this too. Mfds, labels in the consoles, aircrafts 10 meters away... all things that the resolution of the index makes an awful mess of blurry pixels.

Not sure why you compare 2D to 3D. VR was always going to come 2nd/3rd best. I also spent several days and whilst I still hope for improvements from ED, especially for the F16, it is for me, set as I have set, as much as I can expect from VR at this time. At least at the domestic level of hardware.

Ive always urged people to try before buying if possible.

PS I only use zoom to be sure of contacts altitude and to be sure its an f18 not an f16 (due to poor font) so you might conclude that its very adequate vision wise. (for me)

as much as I can expect from VR at this time

That's the whole point. VR at this time is not what it's marketed... it's not just some extra aliasing, I could stick with that. It's a giant step backwards in vision clarity under all aspects.

It's too early, honestly.

It's just that we DCS users are pushing the boundaries of what is possible in VR today . Look at VR games , and they are mostly cartoon-level graphics , or very-limited view distance if they do have higher-level graphics . And because you're not moving at 400 knots , not modeling complex aerodynamics , and not dealing with aircraft systems and multiport rendering in aircraft with mirrors or mfd's , VR games are much easier on CPU'S and GPU's . There are even flightsims that offer fairly high-level graphics that work well in VR , but have weak aerodynamic and systems modeling (and no weapons) .

I personally hate to see anyone give up on VR , as the faster the market and the entire eco-system grows , the more pressure we apply for its development and optimisation . I personally would fly exclusively with a DK2 if that was all that was available .

But ultimately , these are personal preferences .

Im beginning to feel the same. After watching dozens of videos allegedly through the lens, it never occurred to me that its actually the image but shown on a high res monitor.

The excitement was excruciating, top hardware, updated drivers all the tutorials. Strapped the headset on and was blown away by the immersive potential.

Spent hours so far configuring software and balancing settings. Fought through crash after crash until the cockpit was crystal clear and the plane flew butter smooth but never above 45 fps.

Back to the settings as crash after crash frustrated my attempts to get online. While the immersive quality is addictive, its like being in a plane, the constant crashes and inevitable nausea started to really wear on me. Making me wonder if after all this, I made a bad choice.

Finally, rapture. Startup, taxi, off to the skies with a crystal clear cockpit and “acceptable” frame rates. I even pushed through the little prick that shot me down twice on the same team with his “oops my controls are screwed up “ excuse.

Oh well, onwards and upwards finally excited again as I begin to pull up on the wing of a “teammate” excited to replicate some of the scenes of formation flying that attracted me in the first place. As I pull in tight, I look out of my crystal clear cockpit to see a pixilated blob just off my wing. Thats it, I'm out. Question is now, monitor or quit? Really frustrated with the crashes, configurating of the platform and forget about vr!

Rant over. Have a great holiday.

It's just that we DCS users are pushing the boundaries of what is possible in VR today . Look at VR games , and they are mostly cartoon-level graphics , or very-limited view distance if they do have higher-level graphics . And because you're not moving at 400 knots , not modeling complex aerodynamics , and not dealing with aircraft systems and multiport rendering in aircraft with mirrors or mfd's , VR games are much easier on CPU'S and GPU's . There are even flightsims that offer fairly high-level graphics that work well in VR , but have weak aerodynamic and systems modeling (and no weapons) .

 

I personally hate to see anyone give up on VR , as the faster the market and the entire eco-system grows , the more pressure we apply for its development and optimisation . I personally would fly exclusively with a DK2 if that was all that was available .

 

But ultimately , these are personal preferences .

I agree... and to be honest, even some Valve experiences (the very steam home vr), are not a very good visual experience (the mountains outside the default "space" are just... blurry) as soon as the "wow! I'm IN the 3D world" effect expires (24 hours or so).

We need a solution that is at least twice as fast for GPU speed to get to a place where we don't have to compromise and the experience is closer to monitor quality. Either through multiple GPUs for the HMD or through some other tech... Until that happens, VR is a game of compromises.

My problem is less the aliasing and more when I get slideshow mode near tankers or at an airfield. It is very jarring to go from 40 frames to 20 or less. I've spent tons of time getting the settings and performance where its tolerable, and within 10 mins on multiplayer, its back to the drawing board. Worse is that getting performance and having very few ways to understand where the problem really is... Network? GPU? CPU? and then the inevitable Schodingers Cat problem of understanding the impact of measuring any of these variables and what game will do once the tooling to measure gets turned off.

Hopefully something good that hasn't been announced is on the horizon. We need more headroom in either the GPU or in the software to make the GPU more efficient.

That's the whole point. VR at this time is not what it's marketed... it's not just some extra aliasing, I could stick with that. It's a giant step backwards in vision clarity under all aspects.

 

It's too early, honestly.

Hmm now I am not sure I would go that far, as stating it is not what it was marketed as.

VR is quite impressive to me and I use it every day. Many hours a week.

Not just for combat flight sims, but also other made for VR games I have a blast with.

I purchased my first Rift back in Jan 2017, and had a pretty good idea of the downfalls of VR at that time - as I think most people do even now - and the downfalls are not as bad as they were in 2017.

Can somebody explain why when in VR I go to a flyby view and see my head move as a beautiful f18 rides by with me in the seat, yet when I look out the cockpit at the plane just to my right wing, it looks like ass? I mean you can barely tell what type it is??

Very confusing.

Thanks

Hmm now I am not sure I would go that far, as stating it is not what it was marketed as.

VR is quite impressive to me and I use it every day. Many hours a week.

Not just for combat flight sims, but also other made for VR games I have a blast with.

 

I purchased my first Rift back in Jan 2017, and had a pretty good idea of the downfalls of VR at that time - as I think most people do even now - and the downfalls are not as bad as they were in 2017.

+1

I have no (game) crashes - not one in 2 years of VR - no nausea, and planes on my wings are perfectly clear!

All looks good to me with good frame rates to boot, i.e. solid 45 in general and 90 at high altitude.

Can somebody explain why when in VR I go to a flyby view and see my head move as a beautiful f18 rides by with me in the seat, yet when I look out the cockpit at the plane just to my right wing, it looks like ass? I mean you can barely tell what type it is??

Very confusing.

Thanks

Very odd and impossible to imagine.

2 people above are getting what sounds like awful experience DESPITE having better HW than me. Very odd and another example of the individuality of systems.

Its a real problem that it does not seem possible to record what a player sees. Both the good and the bad.

Correction.... 3 people.

Can somebody explain why when in VR I go to a flyby view and see my head move as a beautiful f18 rides by with me in the seat, yet when I look out the cockpit at the plane just to my right wing, it looks like ass? I mean you can barely tell what type it is??

Very confusing.

Thanks

You and I are running pretty much the same system specs. I do not have any problem seeing my wingmen at all. There is something off about your setup if the cockpit looks fine but outside looks like ass. Also your issue with frame rates online is actually common especially on large servers like TTI and Hoggit.

You guys have seen me rant on here and I was within a day of ditching DCS before I found the MFD fix for the Viper. Had I not gotten that mod I was done with DCS and since it’s the only thing I do with my Index, it was going too. Things have gotten better in the last week including the server missions my wing flies. Let me also state that I only fly online. I have no interest in the canned linear single player missions DCS offers other than training missions like AAR. I flew the other Viper sim for 20 years and have infinitely higher standards for gameplay in a combat flight simulator. Our servers typical frame rates for me are a locked 45 FPS having slight dips while on the ground.

Here’s my offer to you guys that are about to ditch DCS and the iIndex. Come get on my Wing’s discord channel for recruits which will allow us to work through your settings in real time on a server I know runs butter smooth on my rig. Some of our guys may be on but we can talk to them on SRS and they do not shoot friendlies. There is no reason why your systems should not run as well as mine. I fly practically every night for a few hours at least and am on Central Standard Time or GMT -6. If your interested send me a PM, our servers are all VCVW-6 and show up in the server list. The one that is up right now is the Clearfiield Mission which is the Caucasus version of Snowfox. Once we set a time I’ll PM the password for the server. We also have our own SRS as well. I will also need your Discord call sign to send an invite.

While I can’t guarantee you awesome frame rates on the TTI servers I can guarantee I’ll figure out why your performance is shitty and hopefully fix it. You’ll also get much better frame rates on a server that is dialed in.

This is a screen shot from tonight and represents exactly what I see in the Index while tanking with two of my squad mates.. actually the index looks better than this pic lol.

Here’s another...

actually the index looks better than this pic lol.

 

Ehm... no. In my experience it looks like exactly like in the pictures, and you must add that the image edges are not as clear as that screenshot.

Ehm... no. In my experience it looks like exactly like in the pictures, and you must add that the image edges are not as clear as that screenshot.

Where in this long ass thread has anyone ever said that VR looks like a monitor? If you don’t like VR and have no intention of trying to improve image quality and performance of your current setup why are you still here? Isn’t there a TrackIR/Monitor thread you can hang out on? Improving both the performance and image quality of the Index for those of us that own it is the purpose of this thread now. No one is selling anything and in fact we're all in agreement VR is a far cry from the Nirvana we thought it would be. Therefore, if you don't have anything to contribute other than we're a bunch of fanboi's you're just a troll....

These kind of pics do not work to compare what individuals see in their 3D. For example aircraft are much much closer than they seem in these external screen grabs.

I go for fluidity in flight rather than using the options for min jags or max quality.

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These kind of pics do not work to compare what individuals see in their 3D. For example aircraft are much much closer than they seem in these external screen grabs.

 

I go for fluidity in flight rather than using the options for min jags or max quality.

Neither of those pics are external screen grabs. Note the cockpit switches. They are what I saw while in the cockpit and I specifically did not select external pics. If you look at the edges you'll see the pixelation which does still appear the farther your eyes get from the object you're looking at. These screenshots are accurate representations of what I saw through my Index last night. As I get closer to an object it becomes CRYSTAL clear.

I agree everyone sees VR differently but if we're using the same HMD and somewhat similar systems we should be seeing somewhat similar results. If you have a less powerful system you wont be able to run my settings for instance but it should damn well be better than a CV1. If it isn't, something is off and more than likely can be fixed. If you're done jacking with it roger that; life is too short to be frustrated by what is supposed to be entertainment.

Edit

With my current settings (used last night with the above screen shots) I stay between 45 and 90FPS in the air and sometimes drop below 45 while on the ground depending on the activity in the server. Currently I'm setting Custom Resolution in SteamVR/Settings/Video to 194%. Everything else is at 100%. You will probably have to go lower if your system is less powerful than mine. I also use SteamVR beta and we've had at least 2 firmware updates in the last 2 weeks.