Su-25T crosswind landing blowing nosewheel tire when wheel steering at chute deploy

at a 13 knots little breeze, all deployment simply must seize, sorry landing Su-25T wanting to come back in with a slight change of wind, go burn up in flames, because we let you take of with a shitty frontwheel tire?

 

how improbable is that

First of all it seems you are overseeing planes limits when it comes to max weight limits on landing.

Secondly, I want letting you know that sometime your english is terrible and not understoodable, as the above quoted text.

So I had this problem a lot too.

The key I found is to not lower the nosewheel immediately on rear wheel touchdown. Keep the nose up and use your rudder alone to centre yourself while letting the high AoA of your airframe slow you down some. Also, make sure you're not flying the approach too fast to begin with.

At that point (I think well under 200km/h) lower the nosewheel and if you still need to deploy the parachute, do so but be fairly hands-off while the parachute initially slows you, if you try and "correct" while the parachute is slowing you it tends to pop the nosewheel - I'd imagine the forces involved are tremendous as the parachute slows you down really quickly!

EDIT: I'll also add that I was used to flying civil jets only (sims only :P) and the big differences are military jets tend to land with much higher AoA and don't drop the nose for a long time (check out videos on youtube for example). I think probably because of an airframe built for higher speed envelopes and no reverse thrust, so like I said above, they use the airframe itself as an airbrake.

The key I found is to not lower the nosewheel immediately on rear wheel touchdown. Keep the nose up and use your rudder alone to centre yourself while letting the high AoA of your airframe slow you down some.

Now THAT'S what I call smart improvising! :thumbup:

Wish I'd come up with that myself :mad:

First of all it seems you are overseeing planes limits when it comes to max weight limits on landing.

Secondly, I want letting you know that sometime your english is terrible and not understoodable, as the above quoted text.

I am a dutch speaker, how's your dutch.

A fix would be for DCS to just strengthen the tire blow point of the tire.

how improbable is that

Not at all improbable. Overloading a tire and then subjecting it to lateral forces is an excellent way to rip a tire off of the wheel rim.

You're trying to land at 168% of the base recommended weight for those tires. Adding large lateral loads to that is a bit crazy. You're not flying like a professional pilot. A professional would be dumping excess weight as fast as they safely could to get to an allowable landing weight.

Try your experiment again with a gross aircraft weight of 12000 to 14000 kg. You should be able to land successfully if the plane isn't overweight by a huge margin.

That would mean reducing fuel to about 800 kg and jettisoning 2000 kg worth of stores from pylons. Or keep the fuel and jettison everything on the pylons.

Edit: In real life they wouldn't put a really heavy load of weapons on the plane unless they expected to use them during the flight. They're already accounted for as expended in the budget, so dropping them is a small price to pay for getting the airplane down in one piece. Saving the pilot is important, saving the plane is not quite as important, the fuel and weapons just go up in flames if you use them, so it's not much of a waste if you have to drop them to save the pilot or the plane.

In real life they wouldn't put a really heavy load of weapons on the plane unless they expected to use them during the flight. They're already accounted for as expended in the budget, so dropping them is a small price to pay for getting the airplane down in one piece.

"They're already accounted for as expended in the budget, so dropping them is a small price to pay"

You're talking the USnavy/airforce here with unlimited funding, severely doubt the russians think this way. One would want to even consider that material, or rather the self-sacrifice of the pilot has high cherish in russian / former-communist thinking (as per WW2 anecdotes and Vietnam, China, Japan and now the ME e.g.) if push came to shove.

This thus a bit too anglo-centric for my taste.

Anyway, I doubt DCS really cares since it's part of the free package.

Up to 5 m/sec or 10 knots crosswind there's no problem, so just stick to that.

Up to 5 m/sec or 10 knots crosswind there's no problem, so just stick to that.

I can live with that :)

I was curious about whether your loadout was too heavy, and couldn't find a definite answer.

 

According to Sukhoi, the normal landing weight for an Su-25K is 11020 kg, and the maximum is 13200 kg.

 

Your fuel and weapons loadout gives a gross aircraft weight of roughly around 18500 kg in DCS.

 

The Su-25T supposed to be rated to take off about 2 - 4 tonnes heavier than the Su-25K, but even so, an 18000 + kg plane is probably over maximum allowable landing weight limits. Unfortunately I couldn't find official numbers for the T variant's maximum landing limit and the landing weight limits are not included in the manual.

 

If you dumped or burned fuel until you were down to something like 500 to 800 kg of fuel, it should be much closer to a good landing weight, maybe even within the proper limits for a T variant.

 

 

Edit: I'm pretty sure that the official landing weights for the 25T are greater than for the 25. I've never seen anything mention of improved gear though, so it's entirely possible that the amount of force needed to cause gear failure are the same in both variants. Without more official information I'd recommend always being extra gentle when landing the 25T.

I would only add to this. I also haven't found landing weights of Su-25T. But landing weight limits are very strict in IRL for SU-25. In our AF if the aircraft (Su-25K) landed with weight more than the recommended 11000 Kg and less than 12600 Kg, it had to be undergo thorough undercarriage inspection. Landing in excess of 12600 was allowed only in absolute emergency. Landings with weights between 11000 - 12600 Kg could form only 5% of all total landings. If this number was exceeded the aircraft had to go for general inspection/repairs. Landing at higher weights does not stress only the undercarriage, but also other parts of the airframe.

"But what seems the case is a rather artificial tire blow cut-off point was entered or kept in the simulator 'to make sure' the manual is right?

My wild guesstimation would be that the real-life front tire of the Su-25T behaves or should or must behave (a lot) better, "

I don't have the real Su-25T experience but with some 15-20 landings with drag chute (in real life) I'd say that your expectations of military aircraft behavior are;) quite optimistic. Above 5 kts it already gets really difficult...

Of course DCS has a very limited array of malfuntions that can happen to nose gear.. nevertheless because of the basic nature of military aviation the limitations are already pulled as far as possible to ensure the operational usability and thus exceeding those limitations really is that critical and even if not the only outcome the nosewheel exploding is a good example..;)

I don't have the real Su-25T experience but with some 15-20 landings with drag chute (in real life) I'd say that your expectations of military aircraft behavior are;) quite optimistic. Above 5 kts it already gets really difficult...

that's both horrible and depressing :pilotfly:

I wish I didnt know that

(I went by the happy pilot faces on the youtubes of the present Syria deployment. Thats sad, I thought they were flying safely, I thought somebody cared)

"They're already accounted for as expended in the budget, so dropping them is a small price to pay"

 

You're talking the USnavy/airforce here with unlimited funding, severely doubt the russians think this way. One would want to even consider that material, or rather the self-sacrifice of the pilot has high cherish in russian / former-communist thinking (as per WW2 anecdotes and Vietnam, China, Japan and now the ME e.g.) if push came to shove.

 

This thus a bit too anglo-centric for my taste.

 

Anyway, I doubt DCS really cares since it's part of the free package.

 

Up to 5 m/sec or 10 knots crosswind there's no problem, so just stick to that.

From footage I've seen, Su-25s are not usually loaded with heavy, expensive PGMs on all hardpoints as is common practice in DCS. A few S-8KOMs can't be that expensive- functionally they're little more than an artillery shell, welded to a drainpipe full of BOOM! with a few bits of metal on hinges at the back.