P-51 Hotas Anyone?

Thrustmaster didn't add FFB to their flagship product, the Warthog, and I'll just venture to assume they did this for a good reason.

This got me thinking: LOGICNC, maybe you could make the stick Warthog compatible (same screw and pins), for easy installation to our existing Warthog base?

How will WEP be implemented on the throttle?

Thrustmaster didn't add FFB to their flagship product, the Warthog, and I'll just venture to assume they did this for a good reason.

Sure, it keeps costs down, and most will not realize what they are missing. Flying the DCS P-51 without a ffb stick is almost as bad as flying with the mouse and keyboard.:joystick:

Are you sure this can be done in the warthog price range? I see plenty of machining, bending, engraving etc...

 

I can take care of the FFB, you just need to make the stick connector a 5pin mini DIN like the warthog/cougar so it can attach to my base.

Commercially, no. But for the first limited run I am only looking to break even on the equipment and tooling required...I'm essentially counting all the labor as "free". If I decide to take it into volume production the price will definitely have to be higher. Warthog Hotas pricing is essentially a "target" price range...if I need to go higher to ensure it meets what I envisioned, then that will be the route I take vs. decreasing quality/functionality. First batch will likely be on the order of 10-20 units...unless I decide to go with crowdsourcing this project.

Sorry, but compatibility with warthog/cougar will not be implemented...this will be a standalone unit. I want authenticity to be the first priority on this project.

Maybe a ffb version could come as an addon? If you plan on making a base pedestal you could offer a non-ffb one now and a ffb enabled one later.

I have thought about that, and the design of the pedestal will lend itself quite nicely to a ffb interface. If I could find someone who is well versed on USB FFB implementation with pic micro, who would be willing to work with me on this then it may be a viable option to incorporate....but definitely not in the $500 price range. Half-baked FFB incorporation is worse than no FFB in my opinion, so I don't want to add something which increases the cost, but not the value.

How will WEP be implemented on the throttle?

Just like in the real one...you will need to break a wire on the gate stop...emergency full rich will function the same way.

I assume more pieces of the breakable wire will be provided in the package to 'refurbish' the WEP and emergency full rich after each flight you use it?

This really looks like a great project and I'm glad you seem to have your head sorted and will make no compromises.

Commercially, no. But for the first limited run I am only looking to break even on the equipment and tooling required...I'm essentially counting all the labor as "free". If I decide to take it into volume production the price will definitely have to be higher. Warthog Hotas pricing is essentially a "target" price range...if I need to go higher to ensure it meets what I envisioned, then that will be the route I take vs. decreasing quality/functionality. First batch will likely be on the order of 10-20 units...unless I decide to go with crowdsourcing this project.

 

Sorry, but compatibility with warthog/cougar will not be implemented...this will be a standalone unit. I want authenticity to be the first priority on this project

Ok that explains it. Sure, if you count the work hours as free, you don't need compatibility with the warthog to get extra orders.

You can concentrate on the hardware design and production, and when the time comes I'd be happy to help on the electronics part, and implementing FFB...

Ok that explains it. Sure, if you count the work hours as free, you don't need compatibility with the warthog to get extra orders.

 

You can concentrate on the hardware design and production, and when the time comes I'd be happy to help on the electronics part, and implementing FFB...

Just a question when you talk FFB are you planning to create your own controller board, as using the MS board is okay for home use but might lead to problems if you sell the product?

Just a question when you talk FFB are you planning to create your own controller board, as using the MS board is okay for home use but might lead to problems if you sell the product?

It'll be 100% custom made. Don't won't to hijack this thread, I'll make my own when the time comes.

But when it comes to FFB there's a lot of misconception about what feedback it should include. For instance gun fireing, ground bumps, engine vibrations etc. are not forces one should feel on the stick.

With modern jets and hydraulic/electric controls even less feedback, basically just the spring tension, or control loading, which is what professional products use.

Sure, it keeps costs down, and most will not realize what they are missing. Flying the DCS P-51 without a ffb stick is almost as bad as flying with the mouse and keyboard.:joystick:

:)

hehe well, i have the warthog, and i must say, flying the DCS P51 with it is the most enjoying and immersive experience i got in a flight sim yet...

but you are right though!i never had any ffb stick, so i indeed have no clue what im missing...

in that regard, i saw a thread where there already exists a ffb mod for the warthog...for about 400euros i think...well i would buy it, but what i hate about it is the fact that it makes the stick a steady one like in the F16....

but i dont want to get off topic here...

i read HALL SENSORS???....well im waiting for the pedals then:)

This sounds great. Count me in! Pretty sure it would be easy to get hold of wire for the WEP and emergency rich setting. That's the kind of thing you shouldn't be using too often anyway!

If you would make the stick with FFB i were very interested!! :thumbup:

Don't miss the sale profit!! There is no other manufacturer of FFB sticks at the moment (except paccus).

I would never buy again a stick without FFB.

greetings

Jens (satisfied G940 owner)

:)

i saw a thread where there already exists a ffb mod for the warthog...for about 400euros i think...well i would buy it, but what i hate about it is the fact that it makes the stick a steady one like in the F16....

That is a force sensing mod, to replicate F-16 control stick which has only 1.6 mm of travel in each direction, and the controls respond to amount of force the pilot puts on the stick. Not to be confused with FFB.

I assume more pieces of the breakable wire will be provided in the package to 'refurbish' the WEP and emergency full rich after each flight you use it?

 

This really looks like a great project and I'm glad you seem to have your head sorted and will make no compromises.

Yes...a starter supply of wire will come with it. It should basically be a "lifetime" supply, but you can always buy more. Around 300 feet of brass breakaway wire is about $15.

Ok that explains it. Sure, if you count the work hours as free, you don't need compatibility with the warthog to get extra orders.

 

You can concentrate on the hardware design and production, and when the time comes I'd be happy to help on the electronics part, and implementing FFB...

I'll definitely get in touch with you when the hardware is near completion...I appreciate the offer for help. And of course there would be compensation...but we'll talk about that later.

This sounds great. Count me in! Pretty sure it would be easy to get hold of wire for the WEP and emergency rich setting. That's the kind of thing you shouldn't be using too often anyway!

Yes, just like on the real thing if you break the safety wire you need to do an overhaul....so save it for real emergencies!;)

I realize I'm probably going to alienate some potential buyers by not going with Warthog compatibility and still being on the fence with FFB. I am however close to being convinced that FFB should be included...especially after hegykc may be interested in helping with the implementation. I have heard the saying that if half the people love your idea and the other half hate it....you're probably going in the right direction! From the looks of the poll...it's probably pretty close!

I appreciate the comments and criticism...both are helpful actually.

I would pay double the price of an Warthog if the stick comes with a good FFB.

I don't understand why all the great manufacturer don't offer FFB sticks as a premium product!

That's a big failure!!

Count me in. If it's an FFB stick you can basically take my money now. This is the kind of setup I've wanted for years. Will be following this one closely.

Count me in. If it's an FFB stick you can basically take my money now. This is the kind of setup I've wanted for years. Will be following this one closely.

So after doing some more research....the stick will indeed be FFB. This does however increase the cost/development substantially. Due to the additional development work required on the stick, I will be releasing the throttle quadrant first with the stick to follow. You can buy one piece or the other.... or both at a discounted price. Anyone who buys the quadrant prior to the stick release will have the option to get the stick at the discounted combo price.

I'm awaiting some equipment delivery and then will be begin prototyping the quadrant components. I'll be able to give a better quadrant pricing estimate, once the prototyping is complete. Hopefully I'll have some more news to share in the near future...

So after doing some more research....the stick will indeed be FFB. This does however increase the cost/development substantially. Due to the additional development work required on the stick, I will be releasing the throttle quadrant first with the stick to follow. You can buy one piece or the other.... or both at a discounted price. Anyone who buys the quadrant prior to the stick release will have the option to get the stick at the discounted combo price.

 

I'm awaiting some equipment delivery and then will be begin prototyping the quadrant components. I'll be able to give a better quadrant pricing estimate, once the prototyping is complete. Hopefully I'll have some more news to share in the near future...

If the FFB stick is ~$500 count me in too!

Very good news!

Keeps getting better. Looking forward to the final product!

I am definitely very interested and looking forward to progress updates!

same. I'd pay in advance to support dev

This sounds very good! :thumbup:

Keep us up to date.

same. I'd pay in advance to support dev

Glad to hear that...I'm not going to take anyone's money until I'm very close to a final product though!

My plan was actually to finish the prototype/testing and then open up a pre-purchase option through paypal. The idea being that I'll have 45 days to deliver after the paypal payments are made. This is basically my way of doing a "kickstarter" style project when kickstarter can't be used by Canadians. By going with paypal, I'll take any risk away from would be purchasers who may be concerned with the project, since paypal requires the seller to show proof of shipment. If I can't show proof, the buyer has the right to file a dispute for refund within 45 days of payment. By the way, it would never get to that point....I would refund anyone who requested it without going through a paypal dispute process.

I wont buy it for two reasons:first I dont have the spare money and second Im pretty satisfied with my setup.Anyways being a WW2 air combat flyer I surely appreciate a project like this.So you have all my support, even if it is not monetary.

Any update on this project?