Logitech G940 Reversal Bug - v1.42 Firmware Update

I just added this comment to the first post as an update. Previous readers of this topic already know this, but I added it so new readers would see his patch right away in the first message and go get it.

New Info June 2019: fred41 has created a patch for the v1.42 firmware that solves the reversal bug for ALL axis now, as well as improves some of the force feedback settings which improves the general feel of the stick. Finally after a decade since it was released, the G940 HOTAS works the way it should. You apply fred41's patch to the v1.42 firmware installer which is linked below. Then just run the v1.42 firmware installer like normal and fred41's patches will be applied to the stick. Thanks fred41!!

Link to fred41's forum topic on the firmware patch: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=240114

Link to the patch: https://github.com/fred41/G940-firmware-fixes

Forcefeedback not working.

Hello everyone, I hope I'm not hijacking this thread.

@fred41 It was suggested to me that I write to you here and to everyone on this thread from the HOTAS/HOSAS/SIMPIT group on discord.

I recently bought a Logitech G940 system 2nd hand (I've never owned one before), it appears to be almost brand new (except for the fact the whole box and system smells strongly of 2nd hand cigarette smoke, it was obviously badly stored).

There are two things with the system I noticed immediately when I plugged the power in, force feedback is not working in any circumstances (the stick does centre though when plugged in) and pulling back the stick on the y axis is quite notchy compared to pushing it forward (the left/right x axis feels very nice and smooth though) (this when plugged in, joystick is loose and very smooth when unpowered).

I have tried the joystick on 3 different systems (Windows 7 Ultimate, 7 Pro and Windows XP home) with fresh IL-2 and ROF installs. I've installed and uninstalled several times the Logitech Gaming Software v5.10.127 (and earlier versions to no avail).

I've updated the firmware to v1.42, then I found fred41's excellent firmware fix here and updated that. This had the overall effect on the joystick by making both the axes smoother on the joystick the y axis pulling back is a lot less crunchy and notchy (but crunch still can be felt). Also the static when the joystick is left centred disappeared after applying fred41's firmware fix, but still forcefeedback is not working.

Please believe me when I say I have all the force feedback options and settings in Windows control panel, Logitech Gaming software and the games correctly set. I do have some self centering when plugged in and other than ffb the stick works when I tested it in Il-2 and ROF. Adjusting self centering forces and force feedback in the Logitech Gaming software or windows game control panel has no effect at all on the joystick and of course no force feedback

I was told if I fire the trigger and press buttons on the stick in the Logitech gaming software I should get ffb effects, while the software registers the buttons I press, the forcefeedback is not functioning at all.

I have tried the FS Force Support forcefeedback ForceTest.exe http://www.fs-force.com/support.php (as well as some other Force feed back software), ForceTest detects the joystick and the FF but when it comes to actually creating force feedback effects nothing happens (except for a barely noticeable twitch when I exit the program).

I have tested the stick on it's own and with the whole system, I updated the firmware with the entire system plugged in.

It's odd that the unit self-centres when powered up but the forcefeedback is dead (and the slightly crunchier y axis pulling back has me worried too). I have the original charger and the kit looks almost brand new so I can't imagine it's a power supply issue.

To conclude I'm trying to ascertain whether this is a software issue that is fixeable, or there is a fault within the joystick. I paid a premium price for it so if it is a problem requiring physical fixing I won't be repairing it, I'll send it back.

Hi Joe,

there is an optical sensor in the main stick grip (on the right side).

If this sensor (also called dead-man switch) is dirty or damaged, you perhaps will get only the auto centering effect, meant for hands-off condition.

The whole force feedback functionality is only available if the optical sensor is active (hands-on).

Maybe you try to clean this sensor (brush, alcohol).

In the worst case, this sensor could be damaged or internally disconnected and needs some repair.

Hope it helps and let us know please,

Fred41

Thank you for the very fast reply.

The unit looks very clean, almost brand new, so I don't think cleaning the optical sensor will work, not sure how I would get a brush in there?

I've taken photos to show you.

Can you comment on the notchy y axis pulling back and also why if I only get the auto centering effect that I cannot adjust even that in the profiler?

The auto-centering effect in hands-off condition (sensor not covered) is not adjustable for the user, it's parameters are fixed in firmware!

There is a simple way to check the sensor's functionality:

1. Connect your main-unit to power and USB port of your PC

2. Move the stick a bit (maybe 30°) away from centre position

3. Now cower and uncover the sensor multiple times

There should be a difference in force for both states (covered/uncovered). If you dont feel a difference, your sensor is dirty or broken, as i already assumed.

To clean or repair/replace the sensor, you have to disassemble the stick obviously, but that shouldnt be a challance, actually.

fred41 your diagnosis is absolutely correct, uncovering and covering the sensor as you have described has no effect whatsoever.

Can you comment on the notchy y axis (particularly pulling back) or is that to be expected?

fred41 your diagnosis is absolutely correct, uncovering and covering the sensor as you have described has no effect whatsoever.

 

 

Can you comment on the notchy y axis (particularly pulling back) or is that to be expected?

Sure. First, yes, it is expected/normal.

There is a difference between the gear-constructions for the x- and the y-axis.

Simple spoken, the stick is more 'in touch' with the motor for the x-axis,

hence you don't feel the inhomogenity of the dc-motor magnetical field that much/early, compared to the y-axis.

Once your sensor works again, you will be able to confirm this.

That's the reason why i personally prefer to use the lower part of the whole force range.

Kraken, based on responses, I'm not convinced this is a sensor issue - at least I haven't heard a statement that confirms this. A failed sensor is very uncommon. So, perhaps to simplify the discussion, I need you to perform a specific test using the Windows Game Controllers dialog. This is the place where if you press a button, you should get the stick to perform demo movements like you mentioned. It doesn't happen with the Logitech Gaming Software. It occurs in the Logitech G940 Properties window found in the Windows Game Controllers control panel. So....

Connect the stick to USB on your computer and connect power. Just for consistency, make sure your computer is booted up to Windows. The order of these operations shouldn't matter. The stick should center when you connect it's power cable. Does it? I believe you said previously that it does. But just trying to make sure we are on the same page.

Load the Windows Game Controllers control panel. On Win 10 (I know, you are running Win7), you should be able to press the Windows key, type "game controllers" (without the quotes), and it will give you the "Setup Game Controllers" control panel at the top of the list search list. Under Win7, I believe this still works the same, but if not, you'll need to find the Game Controllers control panel in the Windows 7 control panel. Anyway, run that control panel.

You can get to the same control panel from the Logitech Profiler (Logitech Gaming Software) software. Load the Logitech Profiler software, click on Device, then Game Controllers... This loads the Windows Game Controllers control panel. But if you run the control panel this way, I want you to exit the Logitech Profiler, or make sure it isn't applying any profile to the stick. Otherwise it may conflict with the test below. To exit the profiler, you must close the window AND make sure it is no longer running on your task bar (it runs in the background, so check the taskbar).

Maybe you know all the above, but I wanted to make sure you are in the Windows control panel, and not the Logitech software, and the Logitech software is not running.

In the Control Panel, find the Logitech G940 Joystick in the list and double click on it. This brings up the Logitech G940 Joystick Properties. Now, if you move the HAT switch (the lower center hat), it should cause the stick to move to full lock in the direction you move the hat. Other buttons should cause other demo actions like vibration, or wild movements. Not all buttons perform a function.

If it doesn't move, click on Settings in the dialog box and make sure "Enable Force Feedback" is selected and close the Settings dialog. You must close the dialog for the change to take effect.

Now press the HAT, or Trigger or a few other buttons. Does it move (again with your hand wrapped around the sensor). If this does not work, then yes, there is something further wrong.

BTW, it shouldn't matter, but in the Settings dialog, is "Enable Centering Spring in Force Feedback Games" is selected. Just curious.

So if the above doesn't work, I would uninstall all the Logitech software, reboot, and reinstall it. I think you said you already did that. If not, do it now.

If reinstalling the software fails, then (and only them) I might consider there is a hardware fault. So yes, maybe the previous owner disassembled it and forgot to connect the hand sensor again. But let's exhaust the possible software causes before tearing things apart.

Sorry for the long (and perhaps obvious) suggestions. I'm just trying to be thorough. Let us know what you find.

And regarding things like the inconsistent feel of the Y axis vs. X axis or Y forward vs Y backward, don't worry about that stuff right now. I own several G940's and they exhibit quite some variation on the feel of the gimbal. It isn't a very good gimbal, so it has some crunchy feel, and yes, the Y axis is the most inconsistent.

Hey, I hope you don't mind me also asking a question related to the g940 as I got one 2nd hand a couple of months ago.

Is it normal for the top PoV on the throttle to partially stop working when its above 50% throttle? Left and Right still seem to work but Up, Up L+R and Down, Down L/R don't.

The 2nd PoV all works fine.

Thank you in advance.

@Drakoz

I'm afraid it was a hardware fault.

I did exactly as you said and the joystick started behaving erratically, it would spasmodically force feedback and throw the stick around but oddly this occurred the moment I uncovered the optical sensor (nothing happened when I covered it) and then would stop in less than a second when uncovered. Moving the hats however had no effect sensor uncovered or covered. Furthermore after this test, the auto-centering feature died.

I appears there was a fault in the optical sensor of what kind I have no idea.

I paid premium price for what should have been an almost brand new joystick, the whole thing was unacceptable so I have returned it to the seller.

Thank you all for helping especially fred41 and Drakoz.

I hope the information above will be useful to someone diagnosing these joysticks.

I'm afraid it was a hardware fault.

I paid premium price for what should have been an almost brand new joystick, the whole thing was unacceptable so I have returned it to the seller.

....

Thank you all for helping especially fred41 and Drakoz.

 

I hope the information above will be useful to someone diagnosing these joysticks.

Sorry to hear the news. If it helps any, I have bought 4 sticks used off eBay and all of them work fine. Most of them were listed as untested, but that is often because people don't know how to deal with a FFB stick. My point being, you just had uncommon bad luck, so keep looking for a good deal, and you should be able to find another one, but one that works.

Hey, I hope you don't mind me also asking a question related to the g940 as I got one 2nd hand a couple of months ago.

 

Is it normal for the top PoV on the throttle to partially stop working when its above 50% throttle? Left and Right still seem to work but Up, Up L+R and Down, Down L/R don't.

 

The 2nd PoV all works fine.

 

Thank you in advance.

No, as you probably assume, this is not normal.

There is a known issue with the G940 Throttle where bad routing of a wire harness can result in disconnecting or breaking the wires. I think these wires go to some of the buttons or pots in the right throttle lever.

This topic discusses the issue:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1473835

Do a search, and you'll find many topics on this issue around the Internet. But the topic above has a link to the SimHQ.com forums which has a picture of the cable.

The issue is common enough that everyone with a G940 Throttle should take their's apart and make sure the cable isn't being stressed because eventually it can break the wires.

No, as you probably assume, this is not normal.

 

There is a known issue with the G940 Throttle where bad routing of a wire harness can result in disconnecting or breaking the wires. I think these wires go to some of the buttons or pots in the right throttle lever.

 

This topic discusses the issue:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1473835

 

Do a search, and you'll find many topics on this issue around the Internet. But the topic above has a link to the SimHQ.com forums which has a picture of the cable.

 

The issue is common enough that everyone with a G940 Throttle should take their's apart and make sure the cable isn't being stressed because eventually it can break the wires.

Thank you for your reply :)

I already knew that I would have to remove that screw when I got the joystick, however I just opened it up again and it is THAT cable that's the problem :mad:. Well where all those little cables go into the plug on the circuit board were wobbling about all over the place!

So I have done a botch fix and glue gun'd them down, now that PoV works up to 99% throttle :) But I doubt it will last to long and I for see more faffing with that cable and plug in the future :(.

On that note do you have any suggestions of know of anyway to permanently fix that cable?

Thanks again for the help.

On that note do you have any suggestions of know of anyway to permanently fix that cable?

I remember reading that some people were able to remove a screw that was holding the cable down, or reroute the cable (???). But I actually haven't done it to my throttles (I have 2) since I use a Warthog Throttle.

The key point is that the cable is too short, and if it gets routed poorly or held up, it will pull on the cable as you move the throttle lever back and forth, and pulling on the cable either chaffs the wires, or more likely causes them to break at the connector.

If you can slacken the cable and/or prevent it from snagging and getting pulled tight, it should be fine.

For more details, there are many topics discussing this issue on the Internet. Search on it and you should find lots of great info about the issue.

Thank you for the very fast reply.

 

 

The unit looks very clean, almost brand new, so I don't think cleaning the optical sensor will work, not sure how I would get a brush in there?

 

 

 

I've taken photos to show you.

 

 

Can you comment on the notchy y axis pulling back and also why if I only get the auto centering effect that I cannot adjust even that in the profiler?

I know this is 4 months old thead, but did you have the power brick plugged in? I see no second wire in your pics???

They joystick needs a 24v DC power supply as well as the USB cable to work.

I Just installed Freds new firmware and it does feel more accurate to be able to hit things an uses the throttle as a collective! great stuff!

Has anyone here got SimFFB working on Windows 10?

I had to reinstall my PC after wiping my C: drive out in a "cloning accident".

When I try and run the 64bit version of SimFFB I get this:

If I try and copy the MSVCR100.dll from \Windows\Syswow64 to \SimFFB directory that message goes away.

but then I get this:

The 32bit version sort of runs but doesn't detect my FFB joystick (I think because it is running on 64bit operating system)

This is so frustrating because SimFFB is the only way I like to fly the KA-50 with my G940!

EDIT: So I managed to fix this by downloading this

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/confirmation.aspx?id=14632

I thought I had done that earlier but must have accidentally downloaded the x86 (32bit) version.

But I still get the no FFB Error!

Edit 2: I fixed it by installing the Logitech flight software (Which I didn't want to do because it splits the controller into 2 devices and I will have to remap all my buttons in DCS! :( )