Can't hit anything with CCIP or CCRP in Missions.

If this has been discussed before sorry for the new thread.

I've been flying the A10C missions and for whatever reason I cannot get a good hit. I've read the instructions in the manual multiple times and understand it. I've flown Falcon for 18 years and I know how to use CCIP and CCRP. To the best of my knowledge I understand how the A10C is modeled at least according to the manual and I am doing everything exactly how it says. But, no matter what setting I use (CCIP, CCIP CR both 3/9 and the other and CCRP) the bombs fall short. I've tried different altitudes and dive angles, setting SPI and using CCRP. Doesn't matter; they always fall short. I have to designate past the target and make a guess on where it will hit.

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Or is 2.5 bugged in this regard? I'm using a Rift BTW.

I've spent 4 days reading the manual and trying everything I can think of. I'm using the stock missions that come with A10C and many times I start off in the air. I know how to make the standard changes to the profiles but am I missing something else?

Many times I'm bombing on hillsides. Would this have anything to do with it? I would think that CCIP and CCRP both take into account the radar altimeter when calculating the release.

Any help is appreciated.

If this has been discussed before sorry for the new thread.

 

I've been flying the A10C missions and for whatever reason I cannot get a good hit. I've read the instructions in the manual multiple times and understand it. I've flown Falcon for 18 years and I know how to use CCIP and CCRP. To the best of my knowledge I understand how the A10C is modeled at least according to the manual and I am doing everything exactly how it says. But, no matter what setting I use (CCIP, CCIP CR both 3/9 and the other and CCRP) the bombs fall short. I've tried different altitudes and dive angles, setting SPI and using CCRP. Doesn't matter; they always fall short. I have to designate past the target and make a guess on where it will hit.

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Or is 2.5 bugged in this regard? I'm using a Rift BTW.

I've spent 4 days reading the manual and trying everything I can think of. I'm using the stock missions that come with A10C and many times I start off in the air. I know how to make the standard changes to the profiles but am I missing something else?

Many times I'm bombing on hillsides. Would this have anything to do with it? I would think that CCIP and CCRP both take into account the radar altimeter when calculating the release.

Any help is appreciated.

Just an example of one store that I had an issue with (at some point the auto setting within the profile had changed in one of the updates that I found to be an issue):

EXAMPLE:

GBU-12. Within the individual weapon profile setting, then OSB 16 (change setting), then OSB 16 (solution option, make sure this is set to BAL/ballistic). When it is in the ORP setting (or whatever the default setting is), for me personally the bomb nearly always fell short or long.

Changing that setting alone, while leaving all others the same (AutoLase On, Lase time 12 seconds, escape NONE) whether manual lasing is enabled with nose steer button or pure autolase - ordinance hits it's target every time unless I have come in at a super jacked angle of attack. Typically drop between 5,000-15,000 feet.

Not sure if that helps, hope it does.

Cheers,

Ziptie

Are you using laser guided or not? An error I used to make was not letting the INS align for long enough prior to takeoff, with a lot of consequent misses of non-laser guided, particularly in CCRP. You have to keep an eye on the CDU and let it count up to T=4.0 before pressing the NAV OSB, and then EGI in your startup procedure. If you rush that step the INS will not align properly - one symptom of which is that your EAC warning light won't go out.

And re-read your post, and this wouldn't be the cause if you are doing air-start missions I presume.

Thanks for the responses gents. I'm dropping dumb bombs. CBU87, CBU97 and Mk82's. The last time I used laser guided all worked. I'll try the BAL/ORP settings tomorrow. I also get crazy release angle drop lines with CBU97. The line wants to stay slanted 45 degrees like I'm dropping a nuke lol.

You cant score direct hits with ccip. Dumb bombs I mean.

I can understand the bomb won't hit in the middle of the X but I would expect them to land within a couple hundred yards. Otherwise what's the point in carrying them? Every hit would risk collateral damage.

I found it easier with the a10 to slightly level out of your shallow dive before dropping 82s.

also (hope this is the a10c) theres an x in the circle, make sure that's gone and replaced by just a pipper

You can get direct hits with mk82's, i just recorded a video. I'll post the link in this comment when the upload finishes. Weather info is at the end of the video. I didnt change anything in dsms, just selected mk82 and the default profile is in ccip.

Edit: It would be much more easier to solve your problem if you can record a video to show us what you are doing @wicked.-

You can get direct hits with mk82's, i just recorded a video. I'll post the link in this comment when the upload finishes. Weather info is at the end of the video. I didnt change anything in dsms, just selected mk82 and the default profile is in ccip.

 

Edit: It would be much more easier to solve your problem if you can record a video to show us what you are doing @wicked.-

 

Witcher 3 music made this bomb pass astonishingly dramatic :D

Witcher 3 music made this bomb pass astonishingly dramatic :D

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Or is 2.5 bugged in this regard? I'm using a Rift BTW. I've spent 4 days reading the manual and trying everything I can think of.

Definitely not bugged. CCIP is the simplest form of bomb dropping and with default settings the IFCC calculates it based on zero wind. So what you need to do is check the mission and see what the wind settings are. If you have a lot of wind going different directions at the different altitudes then you need to plug in the LASTE settings.

I find that starting at about 2 miles from the target at 10,000 feet and then diving almost straight down like they used to do in WWII is the most accurate. But the obvious problems are that you are heading straight towards the ground so you have to chop the throttle and throw out the speed brakes to slow down or you won't be able to pull out of the dive. I'll wait until I'm about 2000 feet above the deck and then hit the button. I can usually score a hit or at least come very close.

You're probably already aware that CCIP is almost never used now. It's safer to use laser or GPS guided munitions and CCIP is really only a fallback or last resort system. If you use LASTE and CCRP at 10,000 feet you can almost be as accurate as you can doing CCIP drops. I've done CCRP drops from 15,000 feet with LASTE set up and come within a few feet of a target. CCIP is OK for stuff like cluster bombs though but it won't work with CBU103's and 105's or other GPS bombs.

There are a bunch of video tutorials on using LASTE. I recommend not to use the "briefing" wind information because it can be wrong. You can get wind speed, direction and temperature from the CDU in flight and use that to plug into the LASTE settings.

Another issue you might be experiencing from page 542 in the manual.

Note: To accurately use CCIP bombing, the aircraft must know the elevation of the aim point. This is most often done by selecting DTS elevation. This is done by first pressing the DATA rocker on the UFC and then the SEL rocker until DTS is displayed on the third line of the HUD data block. If DTS is not selected, the elevation will be based on the steerpoint. If based on steerpoint and the steerpoint is at a higher elevation than where the CCIP pipper is pointed, you will get a CCIP INVALID error.

Wicked.- if you are bombing a target on a hill side, your radar altitude used for calculating the ccip will be false - you'll have to aim before your target if he is lower than your vertical point to the ground, or after your target if he is higher than your vertical point to the ground.

That's what I recall from bombing in ccip with A10a or A10c.

CBU97 being a chute frag you can't use the ccip hud symbol - more likely use ccrp aiming after your target like 100m (CBU97 falls short even with ccrp), or drop it ccip flying at level when you think you are directly above target (if no wind...)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-uSpZROuEd3NHp0SHZoTGpnUDA/view

Check out Part 10 Offensive Weapons

CBU97 being a chute frag you can't use the ccip hud symbol -

You can drop CBU-87's and CBU-97's in CCIP mode. You can't drop 103's or 105's in CCIP mode. You can't drop any GPS guided munitions in CCIP mode. You'll get a "USE CCRP" warning on the HUD.

75th-VFS-Striker - I meant you can't use ccip hud symbol with CBU97 in the sense that the ccip symbol will be "unusable" ... like under the nose, never in sight.

Depends on your dive angle but I understand what you meant.

70 degree dive angle! Lol nice!

Definitely not bugged. CCIP is the simplest form of bomb dropping and with default settings the IFCC calculates it based on zero wind.

IFFCC gets the wind data automatically while flying;

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...0&postcount=42

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...83&postcount=5

You're probably already aware that CCIP is almost never used now. It's safer to use laser or GPS guided munitions and CCIP is really only a fallback or last resort system. If you use LASTE and CCRP at 10,000 feet you can almost be as accurate as you can doing CCIP drops. I've done CCRP drops from 15,000 feet with LASTE set up and come within a few feet of a target. CCIP is OK for stuff like cluster bombs though but it won't work with CBU103's and 105's or other GPS bombs.

You would be using CCIP for unguided munition, right?

Cheers

Hans

I downloaded the offensive weapons and also the whole user made manual and will go at it again tonight. The radar altimeter not giving an accurate read makes sense and that's what I thought all along. That being said, the F16 is totally different and more automated and I'm guessing because it is truly a digital jet (unlike the A10C) and can process the radar returns quicker giving a more accurate solution. I mention this because I'm coming from BMS and old habits die hard.

All I know is I'd like to hit something! lol it's pretty sad when I can't get an 87 close enough to take out a squad of infantry on an open hillside..

IFFCC gets the wind data automatically while flying;

I don't believe that this is correct and I've proven this over and over in training we've done. It's shown that the wind blows bombs off target but when you enter it into LASTE it compensates and works great. And my question is why would you have LASTE in the first place if the system automatically compensated for wind? Doesn't make sense. Please reference the manual location that explains this so I can read up on it.

You would be using CCIP for unguided munition, right?

Please re-read what I said. Obviously you can use CCIP for for unguided in certain cases. My point is that we don't have to use it because we have options like GPS or laser guided.

For wind data to work you would need to enter it into the LASTE system. Therefore you can use the data from the mission briefing after converting the units into the format the LASTE system expects.

(I usually do this in my startup sequence)

There was a Google Spreadsheet that automatically converts the units and some threads here on the forum explaining how it works. Here's the video with a link to the spreadsheet:

CCIP solutions of course heavily depend on the weapon and flight parameters like speed and height if you want to see the impact point on your screen in shallow dive angles.

Be aware that the CCIP system (for bombs) usually is a backup system, you shouldn't use it if you don't need to. And if you use it, it is perfectly normal to use it in a steep dive, that's just how CCIP bombing works.

Or you may use it as a quick mode like "huh, there are enemies in front of me, I need to hit them quickly with my bombs".

However, in case of the A-10C you're probably always better of using your gun instead of CCIP releasing bombs. So CCIP in this aircraft has only little usage in practice.

For wind data to work you would need to enter it into the LASTE system.

That's not true. The airplane captures an idea of the wind layers while climbing through them and uses it during bombing. The LASTE wind page allows you to overwrite that idea with pilot-entered data. Even without pilot entry the airplane does adjust for wind.

Last I checked my typical CCIP accuracy was within a tank-length of DMPI. With Mk-82 in pairs I was killing a T-72 with nearly every WR press. CCIP is the best accuracy in unguided weapons. CCRP-CCIP being a HOTAS button is so you can switch to CCIP at the last second after getting eyes on.

DCS doesn't model the altitude sourcing fully. If you set the right hot elevation (or DTSAS) then it will understand the geometry correctly.

For wind data to work you would need to enter it into the LASTE system. Therefore you can use the data from the mission briefing after converting the units into the format the LASTE system expects.

(I usually do this in my startup sequence)

 

There was a Google Spreadsheet that automatically converts the units and some threads here on the forum explaining how it works.

 

CCIP solutions of course heavily depend on the weapon and flight parameters like speed and height if you want to see the impact point on your screen in shallow dive angles.

Be aware that the CCIP system (for bombs) usually is a backup system, you shouldn't use it if you don't need to. And if you use it, it is perfectly normal to use it in a steep dive, that's just how CCIP bombing works.

Or you may use it as a quick mode like "huh, there are enemies in front of me, I need to hit them quickly with my bombs".

 

However, in case of the A-10C you're probably always better of using your gun instead of CCIP releasing bombs. So CCIP in this aircraft has only little usage in practice.

100% agree with everything you're saying.

By the way, the A-10C is designed to do dive bombing. That's why it has those big speed brakes. I'm not saying that it's ideal under all circumstances but the air frame was partly designed to use that technique. I've done more than 60 degree angle dives in the past and it's been very effective. But do I do it in practice, no. I use standoff weapons like Mavericks and JDAM's.

JDAM and LGB kits for old Mk-82, Mk83 and Mk-84 are super cheap in comparison to newer standoff weapons. So they don't have any problem using them in the field because they're an effective alternative. So why bother with anything CCIP when you have the ability to stay high and clear of danger.

So like Zabuza said, practice it, but in a mission you'll very likely never use it. The only case would be something like your TGP is broken, you have only one Mk-84 left, a building has to go down and your only option left is CCIP.

That's not true. The airplane captures an idea of the wind layers while climbing through them and uses it during bombing. The LASTE wind page allows you to overwrite that idea with pilot-entered data. Even without pilot entry the airplane does adjust for wind.

Frederf, I'm not trying to fight with anyone including you but I don't believe this is correct. I have studied the manual and read a lot of stuff on the older A-10 Suite used in the sim and everything I've read shows that you have to enter LASTE info. The IFFCC does not take in that data. It only displays wind data on the CDU page. We have done LASTE training missions where we set the wind to practice this and have proven that without using LASTE the bomb will go off target by as much as a couple hundred meters and after entering LASTE you can get within a few feet.

Please find the part in the manual and quote it for me here because I would like to know the correct information and what we've been missing in our training setups.

On a side note for the unguided cluster munitions. Make sure to set your HOF. under the INV tab in the DSMS.

On the 97/105 If you use 700ft or 900ft the munitions do not float to far and it seems to be more accurate because of less drift. With the 85/103 you have 2 settings If i remember its HOF and rotation speed. The 85/103 seems useless to me though as the other cluster does more damage and can take out MBT's

Drippy